Reza Shah vs. Mohammad Reza Shah

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Reza Shah vs. Mohammad Reza Shah

Postby IPC » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:29 pm

Reza Shah vs. Mohammad Reza Shah
Observed by an Ex Imperial Air Force Officer
Maziar Aptin
sepeedjamegan@gmail.com
September 29, 2011

Maziar Aptin Memoirs in 3 Chapters:

Introduction

Let me first briefly introduce myself. I was a teenager during Mossadeq era living in city of Shahi Mazandaran. Like majority of people of Iran, in that era, I was an enthusiastic supporter of Mossadeq and hater of the British. In mid 1330s (1950s) due to unavailability of sufficient higher educational system and my passion for receiving my college degree, I enrolled in Tehran Officers College. After graduation I immediately signed up for fighter pilot training program which became available through US Military Aid Program (Komak-e Bella-Avaz). I completed the primary Pilot training but soon after, due to stomach ulcer I had to quit flying. According to the Air Force regulation I was not allowed to fly fighter jet because of the high G-Force involved.

Read More:

Memoirs: Reza Shah vs. Mohammad Reza Shah
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/history/rez ... /index.htm
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Regarding Memoirs: Reza Shah vs. Mohammad Reza Shah

Postby Ahreeman X » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:40 am

Regarding Memoirs: Reza Shah vs. Mohammad Reza Shah

Dear Maziar:

Regarding Avatar,

I uploaded a Faravahar from the gallery to your profile, if you don’t like it then send me one that you like and I will upload it for you.

Now, few issues:

1. Liking America

“I did not mention why Iranians of my generation who are parents and grand parents of your generation and your children's generation liked Americans.”


Actually I believe your generation disliked America due to 28 Mordad 1953 Coup, but my generation are divided to those who hate America (creators of 1979 Islamic Revolution including Hezbollah and Leftists) and those who love America (those who were Anti Islam and Mullahs since the beginning) and then the new generation (born after 1979) loves America because they hate IRI.

In fact my analysis is that:

Iran is the only country in the Middle East that its government hates America but its people love America. Mostly everywhere else is vice versa because their governments are American puppets so their people hate America. In Iran’s case, Iranian new generation are so westernized that they love America (unlike their parents who created KIR AKA Khomeini’s Islamic Republic).

So please elaborate about why your generation loved America?

2. 28 Mordad

“I could elaborate more; what was the reason that the Hezbe Toodeh's demonstration in 1953 backfired. Why fairly small group of thugs could change the course of history in Iran. I have a very good and logical reason for that. Just let me know.”


Actually I still believe that if Mossadeq would win, then Tudeh Party would push him and Jebheis aside and take over the government and prepare the atmosphere for a USSR takeover (sort of like Afghanistan). Of course many (maybe you too) underestimate the power of Tudeh Party then and they say Tudeh was not that strong. Also they overestimate the power of Mossadeq and Jebheis.

On another take, I used to believe that 28 Mordad 1953 was a blessing because it avoided Iran to become a republic of USSR. But later on I changed my mind and I strongly believed that the Coup was a mistake. My logic was that:

If coup would not occur, there would be 2 conditions:

a) Mossadeq would rule

Which in this condition, whatever Mossadeq was would be much better than dictatorship of MRP.
(Please have in mind that I am very much Anti Mossadeq and Jebhe Melli.)

b) Tudeh Party would win and rule

Which in this case, Iran would become Communist and still Communism is progressive compare to Islam, so Iranians would become brighter and more sophisticated, so on 1979 they would not make an Islamic Revolution.

In other words, either way the 1979 Islamic Revolution would have not occurred. That is my point.

But then again, I also believe that the Imperial Regime was reformable and people like Hoveyda and my mother were just doing that. There was no need to destroy Iran by a Revolution. Even if people would give Bakhtiar a chance, we would be much better off today.

Unfortunately every action (Dictatorship of Monarchy) causes a reaction 180 degree on the opposite direction (Dictatorship of Islam) and ignorant people of Iran went from one extreme to another.

So please elaborate on your take?

Earlier (in e-mail) I stated:

3. Qajars

In your memoirs, you are bashing Qajars, way too much. Just remember that Qajar gave you:

Aqa Mohammad Khan
Good or bad, he was the last Persian Emperor (Shahanshah) and while alive, foreign Empires dared to set one foot in Iran. Aqa Khan secured the borders of the Empire and Iran owned all her ancient states. Of course after Aqa Khan, Fath-Ali Khan lost all these states:

Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, etc.

So I consider Aqa Mohammad Khan Qajar, a great Persian Emperor.

Did he make hills and minaret via beheaded heads?
Hell yes!
Do I support this type of behavior?
Hell yes!

Sometimes, violence is necessary to keep the borders of Iran intact and secure.

Aqa Mohammad Shah did not have any testicles (because Zand Dynasty took them out and made him Khajeh) but he had more balls than majority of today’s Iranians!

Today’s Iranians are not yesterday’s Persians!

Maybe if Iranians had 1/100 of Aqa Khan’s balls, then IRI would have not been in power for 33 years!

Many illiterate Gusaleh on Persian TVs, Radios, Ragazines and Internet talk Shiite about Aqa Mohammad Shah (ex. That baboon Bahram Moshiri and other Gusaleh), they call him Turkmen this and Turkmen that and how cheap he was and how violent he was and etc.

The reality is that baboons like that illiterate wanna be historian must comprehend that if it wasn’t because of Aqa Khan, Iran as we know it today, would have not existed and it would have been become parts of Ottoman, British and Russian Empires way back then.

Then I mentioned to you that Qajars are who gave you:

Aqa Mohammad Shah, Abbas Mirza (Great General), Iraj Mirza (Great Poet), Qajar Style Persian Miniatures, Qajar Style Art, Qajar Style Literature, Poetry, Painting, Culture, and even Table Manners. Qajar also gave you Mossadeq and Ahreeman X!


If it wasn’t for Qajar, Iranians would still run around bare feet with Shaliteh Tonban (baggy pants and shirts) in the deserts while eating with their hands! Qajars were the first who brought modern outfits and modern etiquette and table manners to Iran.

So when baboons like Bahram Moshiri and other Jebhei Dayous run their traps about Qajar Turks had done this or that, it just shows how illiterate they are. They are historically illiterate yet they preach Kos O She’r on their Garage based Iranian cheesy Satellite TVs and other Bull Shiite Radios, Ragazines and Websites.

Were Qajars Turkmen rooted?
Hell yes!
Are Turkmens considered Iranian?
Yes, all states (past and present) of the Persian Empire are considered Iranians; therefore, Turkmens are Iranian, even Uzbeks are Iranian, even Georgians are Iranian, even Arabs of South are Iranian, even Blacks of South are Iranian.

Iranian does not only mean to be Aryan, but it means that a certain race, tribe or people have become Iranianized and Persianized. Means they have grasped the Iranian Culture.

Iranian is not a race but a state of mind.

Iran is an empire of multi cultures but with one state of mind.

One does not even have to be born in Iran to be an Iranian.
One must have the state of mind and the Persianhood in his mind, soul and blood to be an Iranian.


In fact Aqa Mohammad Khan Qajar was more Iranian than Bi Savad-e Gusaleh like Bahram Moshiri!

They give misinformation to the young generation. Thank God that the new generation by majority do not even watch these cheesy Iranian TVs. The youth in exile do not even watch Persian TVs because they are getting too westernized and the youth in Inxile are also too involved with Internet, American Fashion, Music and Culture to pay attention or watch these Iranian TVs. Both youth inside and outside Iran get their info and news from Internet (such as IPC) and not Iranian Cheesy TVs!

So I would also like you to elaborate on your statements about Qajars?

4. Questions?

Then you stated:

Aqa Mohammad Shah killed many, built minarets and hills out of beheaded heads and so on …

Then I asked you few questions which you did not answer:

1. Hypothetically in the future Iran, if we have to kill a million (Muslim, Hezbollah, IRGC, Mullahs, etc.) to save 74 million Iranians and Iran, are you willing to do so?

(As an Iranian Opposition member for 33 years, I am ready to kill even 2 millions!)

2. Do you consider 1979 a Revolution or a Reaction?
Revolution = A Move Forward
Reaction = A Move Backward

3. Do you believe the Imperial Regime was reformable (like what people like Hoveyda and my mother were trying to do)? Could we reform the Imperial Regime from the within? Bakhtiar was trying to do the same, so did he deserve a chance?

I will order IPC Office to send this link to also Bahram Moshiri, yet I doubt people like him can read English!

I encourage All who have something logical to say, to partipate in this dialogue.

Cheers

Ahreeman X
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Response to Ahreeman X

Postby maziar » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:16 pm

Dear Ahreeman X: In response to your post of October 04, 2011:

In my memoir titled “Reza Shah Vs. Mohammad Reza Shah” I did not mention how the Iranians used to feel about the Americans in1940s and early1950s which I would like to elaborate on that:

First let me mention that during the Qajar dynasty the two countries of Russian Tsar and the British Empire were highly influential in the Iranian politics. Their over a century of abusive behaviors against Iran and the Iranians had left a great deal of bad memories which had created deep hatred among Iranian people toward those two nations. Until the WWII era the Americans virtually were unknown to the Iranians and consequently they did not have any feelings toward them, either bad or good. America came into Iranian life during the WWII. After the war the people of Iran started loving the Americans for reasons that I will discuss bellow until the1953 mistake made by Dwight D. Eisenhower the Republican president of The United States.

Right after the war the Iranians used to look at the US as a big brother who saved Iran from being disintegrated by the hand of the Soviet Union. If it was not because of Harry Truman’s (the Democratic president of the US) standing firm against Stalin, today the map of Iran would have looked very differently. Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, even maybe Mazandaran Gilan and Khorasan would not be part of today’s Iran. Actually if it was not because of the US even the British would not have left after the war. Now that the British had lost their superpower status to the Americans and also owed their victory against the Germens to them they had to listen to the Americans and honor the treaty and move out of Iran.

With the passed experience that the Iranians had with the British they knew what kind of monster they were and consequently the Iranians gave the credit to the Americans for the departure of the British from Iran. If after the war the allied forces would not have honored the treaty and would have stayed in Iran there was nothing that Iran could have done and the country would stay occupied for who knows how long!

That was not all that the US had done for Iran. Right after the war, that Iranians were starving due to the war damages and famine, Truman had started a mini "Marshal Plan" in Iran and other "Third World Countries" called "Truman's Point 4 Plan" (Asle-4-e Truman).That project had created so many jobs which it looked like a gift from heaven and it was very tangible. It affected every level of the Iranian society. It was money in the Asle-4 driver's pocket and bread on his "Sofreh". It was the end of the shortage of foodstuff and famine. It was the end of malaria epidemic in Mazandaran, Gilan, and elsewhere, etc. etc. Not that America had saved us from the Soviets but they also became the new superpower replacing the British that was number one enemy of Iran and used to abuse their power against Iran in every which way that they were able to and we did not have anyone to help us. After the WWII, it was the Americans that were dictating the policies in the Middle East not the British. To us the Iranians, over a century of British-abuses was over.

Now Iran had the Americans to rely on. That is why we used to look at America as a big brother until their 1953 intervention which the love for America had changed into a love and hate feelings. That feelings still exists because even though that America was the partial participant in 1953 in Iran losing its democratic system of government replaced by a dictatorship poppet government system but by the same token the people of Iran could not forget that America was also the savior of Iran by preventing its disintegration which was by far more important.

That feelings of my generation has been transferred to present day generation which is the reason you see today Iranians have love and hate feelings toward the US. Love her for what Truman had done and hate her for what Eisenhower had done. Maybe that is why I am a Democrat not a Republican.

Mr. Ahreeman X or should I say Dr. X! Your argument that if Mossadegh would have succeeded there was a possibility that eventually Toodeh Party could have prevailed and Iran could have become a communist country does not hold water, as the New Yorkers would say.

Let me elaborate on that subject; the original WWII Alleys, meaning the British and the Soviets, signed a treaty with Reza Shah that, in brief as follows:
1- The Allied forces would enter the country as guest not hostile forces
2- They were allowed to use all facilities in Iran specifically the railroad
3-The Allied would leave the country not later than six months after the end of the war
4- Government of Iran would not take any hostile actions against the Allied Forces
5- Reza Shah would accept the forced exile.

Based on the above treaty; on the 20th Shahrivar of 1320 (September first 1941) the British and the Soviets forces, simultaneously entered into Iran. The Soviets occupied the Northern states and the British the rest of the country. As the Americans interred the war, the following year, they signed the said treaty as well and shared the British occupied territories. Consequently all Northern states remained under the occupation of the Soviets only.

Toward the final years of the war Stalin came up with the idea of expanding the Soviet territory into part of Iran. They created the Toodeh Party in Azerbaijan and from there the Soviets expanded their activities into Kurdistan and gradually into all their occupied areas of Northern Iran. At the end of the war, after the Americans and the British moved out the Soviets stayed and politically became more active to a point that they had created a poppet government in Azerbaijan called “Pishehvary” which had declared the independence of Azerbaijan and the government of Iran was not strong enough to counter the Soviets. It was at this period that Truman sent an ultimatum to Stalin; either move your troops out of Iran or you will have a war against the U S on your hand, and started moving the U S naval fleet toward the Indian Ocean.

Considering that the United States was the only world power with nuclear arms capability in that period and also the Soviets were severely damaged by the war there was not any room for hesitation for Stalin and the Soviets were gone within a short period of time. After their departure and the end of their direct support for the “Pishehvary”, the poppet government was not strong enough to stand against the Iranian Army and the will of the people of Azerbaijan. When the Iranian Army approached the city of Tabriz the people of Tabriz themselves disarmed the poppet government even before the army’s arrival and the Pishehvary leaders, mostly Turkish speaking Russian citizens, fled into Russia. The action of the people of Azerbaijan (the cradle of the Toodeh activities) against Pishehvary is the clear indicative of the lack of support for Toodeh among general public in Iran.

Of course after the departure of the Soviets the Toodeh Party still stayed active in Iran but they survived only with the financial support from the Soviets. They were well organized with dozen or two highly educated leaders; a few of those leaders were educated in the Soviet Azerbaijan and even a few citizens of that country still were living in Iran. As I mentioned above; most of the party leaders had fled the country after the defeat of Pishehvary but the home grown ones stayed and were running the Party. As you can see the Toodeh Party being a non-Iranian party was well known by the majority and of course by Mossadegh and the rest of the politicians. Consequently, with the exception of a few, there were no Toodeh sympathizers among the major players in Iranian politics.

With above in mind after that the first coup against Mossadegh had failed, according to a high ranking CIA officer, Kenneth Polack, Eisenhower was ready to negotiate with the Mossadegh government. And obviously the two nations would have come to some kind of agreement. In that case with the support from the U S, and with the Soviets influence minimized to only financial support for the Toodeh, there was no chance of Toodeh take over in a, would be, democratic Iran. This notion of; “that the communists could have taken over in a democratic Iran” was the propagandas that had started in early 1950s in the U S which was the beginning of the McCarthyism in that country.

In regard to; how the demonstrations of small groups of thugs on 28th Mordaad of 1332 could succeed changing the course of the history in Iran from 1953 to the present! I have to add to my memoir the following:

When Kermit (Kim) Roosevelt, the CIA Station Chief in the American embassy in Tehran staged the second coup against Mossadegh, with the S1, 000,000 budgets that he had in hand, he bribed a few top ayatollahs, Namely Ayatollah Kashani $10,000, and numerous “Jaahels” which handed them several thousands of Five-Toomani-bills to spread it in the ghettos. On 28th of Mordaad, organized by the CIA, the number of demonstrators sent into the streets by above groups, including from mullah groups, was minimal in comparison to the numbers that usually used to demonstrate in favor of Mossadegh on any given day. But what had made the 28 of Mordaad CIA backed demonstrators successful was the stupid mistake made by the Toodeh leadership. Unaware that the demonstration was a CIA staged, the Toodeh leadership had sent their people in “Meydaane Ceppah (Sepah)”, the largest square in Tehran, and started bringing down the statue of Reza Shah, a majestic statue; with Reza Shah sitting on the horse. That had an adverse effect on the emotion of the majority. What had Reza Shah have to do with it?

The CIA immediately publicized on the radio that the Toodehs are trying to take over the government and immediately, on the same day, printed the picture of statue of Reza Shah coming down in the “Fogholadeh paper” the (Extra). Since the Mossadegh supporters were the arch enemies of the Toodehs, they did not want to have any part in those demonstrations so they stayed home. At this time the army stepped in; arrested and scattered the Toodeh demonstrators and left the stage for the thug demonstrators and on the same evening a Marshal Law was declared. The whole country including the Mossadegh supporters was taken by surprise and were too much in shock to take any kind of action. The next day Mossadegh was arrested and the Marshal Law stayed in force for the next five years until early 1958. Perhaps Mr. Roosevelt should have sent a thank you note to the Toodeh leadership for his success.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Response to your following questions numbers 1. 2. and 3. :

Q1. Hypothetically in the future Iran, if we have to kill a million (Muslim, Hezbollah, IRGC, Mullahs, etc.) to save 74 million Iranians and Iran, are you willing to do so?
(As an Iranian Opposition member for 33 years, I am ready to kill even 2 millions!)



Answer to Q 1: This question of yours is in regard to my comments in my memoir against the Ghajars “Qajars” which I will answer later for keeping our discussion of Reza Shah vs. Mohammad Reza Shah separate from the Qajars.

Q2. Do you consider 1979 a Revolution or a Reaction?
Revolution = A Move Forward
Reaction = A Move Backward



Answer to Q 2: It was supposed to be a revolution that Iran needed very badly but it changed into a reaction after the mullahs stepped in.
Now in retrospect the mullah take over was inevitable because the secular and progressive sector of the population did not have any organization. There were Mojaheds, Khalghs, Toodehs, etc. which were not popular with the majority. Then there was the Jebhe Millie that was never a party but a small group of aristocrats that were waiting, after the revolution, for the people to put the country on a silver platter and hand it to them. By the way the J. M. members including Mossadegh did not want to make the organization a party because its members who were all bunch of upper class aristocrats did not want the sons and daughters of plumbers and carpenters to be able to join.

The majority that wanted the revolution to happen did not form any political party to be organized and ready for the day to arrive. That left the mullahs that were well organized with centuries of experience, clientele (the 4th class unemployed farmers and amalehs), and the establishment for gatherings, the Masjeds.

That is why, for the next revolution, I have suggested the creation of a political party complete with a charter popular with the majority of progressive minded people of Iran. Its charter should be so well written that could become, tentatively, the next constitution of Iran. In other word, people should know what exactly they are getting into when they intend to join the party. If the party is popular with the majority and even if only some percent of the majority joins the party, there would not be any need for arm-struggle or any foreign power intervention for toppling an unpopular or better said a hated regime.

In a few of my articles I have suggested what could go into the future constitution. Those oppositions to the present regime who are against the formation of a party, as I described, are only day dreamers. The party that I have mentioned above must form abroad because of the restrictions exists at home.


Q3. Do you believe the Imperial Regime was reformable (like what people like Hoveyda and my mother were trying to do)? Could we reform the Imperial Regime from the within? Bakhtiar was trying to do the same, so did he deserve a chance?



Answer to Q 3: In my opinion absolutely not; as I mentioned in my memoir, “The fish was rotted from the head” and was not curable. You yourself wrote on your site that Hovayda an honest man, a close friend, confidant, and for years the loyal prime minister of Mohammad Reza Shah when decided to end the corruption in his government, Shah ruthlessly made fouls accusation against him and put him in jail. As I mentioned in my memoir “as far back as when John Kennedy was the president of the U S, Kennedy had forced the reform on the “Imperial Regime” of Mohammad Reza but with no avail. As soon as Kennedy was assassinated Shah resumed his embezzlement activities”.
Again; the fish was rotted from the head which needed to be cut off. Actually monarchy regime is an outdated obsolete system which is the subject of different discussion. In brief it is like; at the age of cell phone and satellites you still work with your rotary dial-phone.

Drood Maziar
Last edited by maziar on Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Respond to Maziar Aptin

Postby Ahreeman X » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:39 am

Greetings Maziar:

“Right after the war the Iranians used to look at the US as a big brother who saved Iran from being disintegrated by the hand of the Soviet Union.”


Depending on whom you were talking to! Not if you were talking to SUMKA members or many Iranians who were Germano-feel!

“If it was not because of Harry Truman’s (the Democratic president of the US) standing firm against Stalin, today the map of Iran would have looked very differently.”


Of course you had to mention that he was a Democrat, you simply could not let that slide, could you? No one ever said that all Democrats are incompetent in foreign policy. Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, etc. were very competent.

“Azerbaijan, Kurdistan, even maybe Mazandaran Gilan and Khorasan would not be part of today’s Iran.”


Again depending on whom you are talking to! For instance our chef back in Iran was a hardcore Kurd Guerilla in his youth and whenever we were discussing politics, he always blamed America for the Kurdish to lose the war to Shah.

“if it was not because of the US even the British would not have left after the war. Now that the British had lost their superpower status to the Americans and also owed their victory against the Germens to them they had to listen to the Americans and honor the treaty and move out of Iran.”


This is exactly what I have been trying to reason with you. America is not a conquering and Occupying Empire but it is a Trade Empire. America invades, liberates and leaves the country after it is stable enough to leave; therefore, they can trade with them. The value of the liberated nation as a trade partner and a new market for American products is much higher than its value as a colony! America is not a colonialist but a trader. Free Markets are the key to America’s super power status. Only if the New Democratic Party, Obama and other Socialists could understand that!

Why is it that DNC Chairs are getting more psychotic and more Radically Marxist by the day?

First Howard Dean and now this Femi-Nazi Debbie Wasserman Schultz? Who’s next? Michael Moore or Sean Penn? Maybe Oliver Stone?

Forget about it (Italian Style), your party is now owned by Coo-Coo Nuts, Radicals and Marxists!

Read:

Should US Invade and Liberate Iran?
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/club/viewto ... 17573#7296

“the Iranians gave the credit to the Americans for the departure of the British from Iran.”


I understand why many Iranians must have liked America in the late 1940s and early 1950s (before 1953). I could not understand why they would still love them after 1953!

“Truman had started a mini "Marshal Plan" in Iran and other "Third World Countries" called "Truman's Point 4 Plan" (Asle-4-e Truman).”


The same Marshal Plan which today, the South America has rejected along with the IMF lead by US. Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, Nicaragua (Marxists) and Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Ecuador (Socialists) had combinely voted it out. South America is moving towards the left and a possible future “South American Union” like EU.

“Not that America had saved us from the Soviets but they also became the new superpower replacing the British that was number one enemy of Iran and used to abuse their power against Iran in every which way that they were able to and we did not have anyone to help us. After the WWII, it was the Americans that were dictating the policies in the Middle East not the British. To us the Iranians, over a century of British-abuses was over.”


Understood. As a historian I am perfectly aware of that.

“Now Iran had the Americans to rely on. That is why we used to look at America as a big brother until their 1953 intervention which the love for America had changed into a love and hate feelings. That feelings still exists because even though that America was the partial participant in 1953 in Iran losing its democratic system of government replaced by a dictatorship poppet government system but by the same token the people of Iran could not forget that America was also the savior of Iran by preventing its disintegration which was by far more important.”


Exactly. Love Hate Relationship is the best way to put it.

“That feelings of my generation has been transferred to present day generation which is the reason you see today Iranians have love and hate feelings toward the US. Love her for what Truman had done and hate her for what Eisenhower had done. Maybe that is why I am a Democrat not a Republican.”


C’mon Liberal, give me a break! It goes both ways:

Love for Nixon for supporting the Imperial Progressive Iran.
Hate for Carter for betraying the Imperial Progressive Iran.
Love for Reagan for destruction of Global Communism.
Hate for Obama for the second betrayal of Iran not backing opposition in 2009.


“Mr. Ahreeman X or should I say Dr. X!”


You can call me Ahreeman, Dr. X, Ahreeman Mirza Qajar, Gorg Ali in Exile, Huckleberry or whatever else you like but I ain’t your Daisy!

Maziar, even though a liberal, we still love you!
We (All of us) including The Father @ Under (Ahreeman), The Son @ Above (Dr. X) and the Spiritual Intermediate between the two worlds (Raven) all love you!

We (Ahreeman, Dr. X and Raven) like them (Father, Son and The Holy Ghost) love you!

“Your argument that if Mossadegh would have succeeded there was a possibility that eventually Toodeh Party could have prevailed and Iran could have become a communist country does not hold water, as the New Yorkers would say.”


But it holds Eggnog, no? Forget about it (New York Italian Style)!

I still believe USSR and Tudeh Communists would swallow Mossadeq’s regime. Also Mossadeq is not the saint which you libs make of him. He was an arrogant, stubborn, self centered unrealist who did not have a clear vision of the world at the time.

Said that, I must admit that now (unlike the past) I believe that 28 Mordad was a mistake and one way or another we would be better off without the Shah and / or without the monarchy.

We would be better off if Reza Khan had ended the monarchy (1925) or if people have ended the monarchy (1953). Islamic Revolution (1979) would have never occurred.

Islam is the direct result of Monarchy.
Islam is like Chancre Sores created by the Monarchy which is the Syphilis!

“Let me elaborate on that subject; the original WWII Alleys, meaning the British and the Soviets, signed a treaty with Reza Shah that, in brief as follows:
1- The Allied forces would enter the country as guest not hostile forces
2- They were allowed to use all facilities in Iran specifically the railroad
3-The Allied would leave the country not later than six months after the end of the war
4- Government of Iran would not take any hostile actions against the Allied Forces
5- Reza Shah would accept the forced exile.”


But anyway you sugar coat it, the Allies had invaded and occupied a sovereign nation to use it as the Bridge to Victory because:

a) Iran’s Strategical Value
b) Iran was a Nazi Sympathizer


“Toward the final years of the war Stalin came up with the idea of expanding the Soviet territory into part of Iran.”


Wasn’t Stalin a son of a bitch? He killed more people (specifically his own people) than Hitler (about 20 million total) but until this day Marxists and the Left justify his crimes and some worship him!

“It was at this period that Truman sent an ultimatum to Stalin; either move your troops out of Iran or you will have a war against the U S on your hand, and started moving the U S naval fleet toward the Indian Ocean.”


Hey I don’t care what they say about Harry Truman, but I like the guy! See, Ahreeman can also have feelings for Democrats! I love you too!

“When the Iranian Army approached the city of Tabriz the people of Tabriz themselves disarmed the poppet government even before the army’s arrival”


Yes the majority of minorities in Iran are Nationalist Iranians and not separatists but unless the future government of Iran is a “Federal” system understanding to the needs of the minorities, we will still have separatist songs all over Iran.

What Imperial Iran and IRI have done (Centralism) has been oppressive to the minorities. Federalism is the only key for the survival of the Iranian Empire which is a pot full of many cultures.

History of Federalism in Iran
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/history/fed ... /index.htm

BTW, what is your take on Federalism for Iran?

“with the exception of a few, there were no Toodeh sympathizers among the major players in Iranian politics.”


You the same as Mossadeq are underestimating the power of the Tudeh Party (back then).

“This notion of; “that the communists could have taken over in a democratic Iran” was the propagandas that had started in early 1950s in the U S which was the beginning of the McCarthyism in that country.”


True but my opinion is not based on propaganda but on historical facts.

“When Kermit (Kim) Roosevelt, the CIA Station Chief in the American embassy in Tehran staged the second coup against Mossadegh, with the S1, 000,000 budgets that he had in hand, he bribed a few top ayatollahs, Namely Ayatollah Kashani $10,000, and numerous “Jaahels” which handed them several thousands of Five-Toomani-bills to spread it in the ghettos.”


Perfect cooperation between Shiite and Monarchy!

The Historical Relation between Monarchy and Shiite!
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/history/mon ... /index.htm

But hey, 5 Tooman then was valuable. Remember the old 5 Tooman bills?
You could have a great Kubideh Kabob, charbroiled tomatoes side, basil leaves, raw onions all on Sangak bread at the local Kaboby and then have more to spend on other things!

Talking about Kabob Kubideh, I am getting hungry. It is my favorite! =P~

“Toodeh leadership had sent their people in “Meydaane Ceppah (Sepah)”, the largest square in Tehran, and started bringing down the statue of Reza Shah, a majestic statue; with Reza Shah sitting on the hors.”


I remember that Statue. One of our estates was located in Sepah Avenue across the 2nd gate of the military academy.

BTW, what is a “hors”?
Is it a Huri from heaven?
Is it a supernatural whore?
Is it a Khajeh horse?
Or do you mean Horse?

Baba jan have you heard of Microsoft Word spell check?
Vase Jahel oft dareh!
And for an author of your stature it is shameful!
Also to get the hang of all the toys in the forum, check the “BB Code” section in the FAQ link on top right of the Club homepage (as I have sent you the link). It introduces you to all the toys and gadgets in the IPC Club Forum.
Pulling down your shorts! :badgrin:

“The CIA immediately publicized on the radio that the Toodehs are trying to take over the government and immediately, on the same day, printed the picture of statue of Reza Shah coming down in the “Fogholadeh paper” the (Extra). Since the Mossadegh supporters were the arch enemies of the Toodehs, they did not want to have any part in those demonstrations so they stayed home. At this time the army stepped in; arrested and scattered the Toodeh demonstrators and left the stage for the thug demonstrators and on the same evening a Marshal Law was declared. The whole country including the Mossadegh supporters was taken by surprise and were too much in shock to take any kind of action. The next day Mossadegh was arrested and the Marshal Law stayed in force for the next five years until early 1958. Perhaps Mr. Roosevelt should have sent a thank you note to the Toodeh leadership for his success.”


Interesting. It is very interesting to hear the story from your mouth who was an eye witness and it is very interesting to hear your take as an author.

“Answer to Q 1: This question of yours is in regard to my comments in my memoir against the Ghajars “Qajars” which I will answer later for keeping our discussion of Reza Shah vs. Mohammad Reza Shah separate from the Qajars.”


You can create a topic in the Political Activist Room

http://iranpoliticsclub.net/club/viewforum.php?f=46

and answer it or you can answer it here or where ever, but I still need an answer:

Q1. Hypothetically in the future Iran, if we have to kill a million (Muslim, Hezbollah, IRGC, Mullahs, etc.) to save 74 million Iranians and Iran, are you willing to do so?
(As an Iranian Opposition member for 33 years, I am ready to kill even 2 millions!)


“Answer to Q 2: It was supposed to be a revolution that Iran needed very badly but it changed into a reaction after the mullahs stepped in.”


Ahreeman begs to differ; it was a reaction from the beginning because the Mosque had well planned the whole thing from the Get-go!

This is why I always refer to 1979 as a Reaction.

“By the way the J. M. members including Mossadegh did not want to make the organization a party because its members who were all bunch of upper class aristocrats did not want the sons and daughters of plumbers and carpenters to be able to join.”


I am truly impressed with your fairness. Mossadeq and Jebhe Melli are liberals and so are you. So I assumed that this would affect your historical judgment, but I have to admit that I have to give you more credit as a fair historical author.

Yes, Mossadeq and his buddies were arrogant Qajar aristocrats. Believe me, I know the type. They are my people from my dynasty.

“That is why, for the next revolution, I have suggested the creation of a political party complete with a charter popular with the majority of progressive minded people of Iran. Its charter should be so well written that could become, tentatively, the next constitution of Iran.”


You are absolutely correct and I urge you to complete this task so you will encourage others to jump in and help. We even created the forum as you wished.

Brainstorming for the Future Government of Iran Room
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/club/viewforum.php?f=47

“If the party is popular with the majority and even if only some percent of the majority joins the party, there would not be any need for arm-struggle or any foreign power intervention for toppling an unpopular or better said a hated regime.”


I do not agree with you. Regimes such as IRI or Nazi Germany cannot be toppled solely by the will of the people. 2009 failed Uprising was the perfect lesson to learn.

“Those oppositions to the present regime who are against the formation of a party, as I described, are only day dreamers. The party that I have mentioned above must form abroad because of the restrictions exists at home.”


Agreed and agreed

“Answer to Q 3: In my opinion absolutely not; as I mentioned in my memoir, “The fish was rotted from the head””


Maziar jan, I am specifically talking about Bakhtiar. Shouldn’t people have given him a chance to reform the Imperial Regime rather than destroy the whole nation?

Immortals Then and Now
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/club/viewtopic.php?t=250

I know you may say that by then it was too late and people wanted an end to monarchy, but wasn’t this a nation committing suicide?

I still believe that we could reform the Imperial Regime rather than creating a Revolution which ended up as a Reaction!

“monarchy regime is an outdated obsolete system which is the subject of different discussion. In brief it is like; at the age of cell phone and satellites you still work with your rotary dial-phone.”


This is beside the fact and aside from my question above.

I have no dispute with you on that. In fact I have written many philosophical, political and historical articles about the flaws of monarchy and its medieval nature, such as these:

How Republicans and Monarchists view the world?
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

Role of the 21st Century Monarchs and Monarchists
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/history/monarchy/index.htm

Monarchy is an old skeleton which must be put to rest in the bookshelf of “Old and Outdated Flawed Ideas”; however illogical and uninformed public such as many British, Canadians and Iranians still glorify this medieval backward system of government. I do not know what is it about the monarchy that these people love:

Imperial Families’ gossip columns?
The Monkey suits?
Being ruled by an unelected official?
Or
The waste of tax payers’ money?

If you notice, in most majority of cases, the same people who love being slave to some God (Theists) are also most likely willing to be slave to some monarch (monarchists). After all, Shah gets his power from the God! This is medieval culture of slavery.

BTW, have you read this:

Why Reza Pahlavi Cannot Lead Iranian Opposition?
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/politics/why-shah/index.htm

Read the article, specifically the part about the Imperial Generals and give me your take on that?

By majority, I have the outmost respect for the Imperial Officers and the Immortals; however, I have no respect for the Imperial Generals.

I know you will bring up the fact that they were trained not to think for themselves and remain lap dogs, but still I hold them very much responsible for not backing Bakhtiar and the victory of Khomeini. Of course there are always exceptions and we had some worthy Generals who were murdered and who are still alive (as you know it).

One request: Reza Shah Memory

Please write a paragraph or two about your Reza Shah Memory which you told me about it. I believe it is great for the readers to hear it from the horse’s mouth. You have a life time of historical memories which you should not deprive the youth of reading them. I promise I will not base on you about the age. You must understand that age means nothing; it is all about the brains. I don’t know why you have a thing about being called old! I am old. I am an old man. Being old means I am wise and experienced. Besides, you look great for your age. Some people age horribly but you age gracefully. You are always young in heart. So please tell the story and many other stories which you may have. It is very educational and historically important for the youth to read your memories and experiences. Don’t deprive them of their history.

Overall Analysis

Now I shall state that,

Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi has done many good for Iran. You may not agree but it is a historical fact. He made many mistakes, had many flaws and his legacy will always remain that he was the last Shah of Iran who handed Iran to Islam. It was on his watch which Iran got destroyed. What I most criticize him for is not granting democracy when it was needed (until it was too late) but furthermore his cowardly escape in 2 separate occasions (1953 and 1979). However, still I believe that he was a nationalist and he had done many goods for Iran. Another beef that I have with him is for being a superstitious Muslim!

I am sure that you can bring up 20 different cases that he damaged Iran beyond repair and I can bring up a number of goods which he had done for Iran. Most likely you and I both are aware of which cases the other party would bring forward, because both you and I are students of history.

I am sure the most debatable issue will be the White Revolution which you will state that it was implemented half ass; therefore, it failed and I would bring up the constructive aspects of it.

Both of us try to be fair judges of history, but you end up too critical of the Shah and I end up too supportive of Shah. The funny thing is that while people like you believe that I am way too supportive of Shah, at the same time monarchists believe that I am way too critical of the shah to the point that I have trashed him. Monarchists are very critical of me.

The reality is that I am only trying to be a fair historian. The man had done many goods for Iran and he was a good nationalist. Maybe he made more mistakes than he done good and maybe he was largely responsible for the present disaster (IRI), but this does not mean that he had intentionally destroyed Iran! He was ignorant of secularism, federalism, democracy and many things, but he was not surely the monster which you portrayed him to be!

You have brought many issues forward. These issues have been obscured by the clouds of history. Clouds of history which has been put intentionally by the monarchists over these issues to slide them under the Persian Carpet! You exposed these issues. You had many good points and you have unveiled many corruptions. Your memoirs are extremely valuable and historically relevant but I still believe that you hold liberal biased and the roots of it lie in your bad experiences which you have suffered during your youth and your service under the Shah in the Imperial Iran. I am perfectly aware of the injustice which you and others may have suffered under his rule.

I try to be a fair judge of characters and history.

As I always said:

Reza Shah had balls of steel
Mohammad Reza had balls of copper
Reza Pahlavi II has cotton balls


We both agree that Reza Khan was a great man; furthermore, I refer to him as Father of the Nation. He had many flaws too! But look at what he had accomplished. He would have accomplished more if he would have not surrendered to the monarchists and Shiite, yet he would turn Iran to a Republic on 1925.

But you need to less criticize the Shah because if you grant all your criticism to Mohammad Reza Shah, then what will you hand to Reza Pahlavi II?

In comparison to Mohammad Reza Shah, his son Reza Pahlavi II is a microscopic Dirt Stain on the history of Iran. RP is a disgrace! Please save some criticism for him! But knowing you, right away you will say that comparing MRP to RP is like comparing Apples to Oranges, because MRP was a Shah but RP is a prince who never become a Shah.

The old chubby kitchen chef prince who never become a Shah ……

I can never stop bashing RP. In fact in the future, I will publish the documents from the 2nd failed Coup (after Nozhe) which he did not back the coup and this is why the Imperial Generals, Patriots and Nationalists have failed for the second time. Reza Pahlavi II has committed treason by not supporting the 2nd coup. I believe he should simply shut his mouth, get out of politics and spend the rest of his days attending his kitchen rather than making a fool of himself still trying to become Shah! The man is delusional. Just think of it, seriously, can you believe this guy still wants to become Shah? And there are still detached Iranians from reality (monarchists) who still believe that this can one day come true! After 33 years, they still dream of monarchy! Now that, I call wishful thinking by the mathematical possibilities of under 1 % to turn in to reality. You must give the monarchists credit for wild imaginations! After all they have nothing better to do but fantasizing while smoking that opium and drinking that vodka in their opium dens!

But then again are Monarchists more of a dreamers than Marxists or Mojaheds? They all want to return an outdated ideology back to the 21st century! Monarchy, Marxism and Marxist Islamism are all yesterday’s news but these people are all overzealously imaginative and full of wishful thinking!

I do not understand why Iranians do not spend all their efforts planning to build the future of Iran based on the latest political ideologies, economical ideologies, philosophical ideologies and scientific ideologies?

Why do Iranians live in the past?

How about trading their medieval beliefs for concepts such as:

Futurism?
Federalism?
Secularism?
Science?
Democratic Republic?


Why are Iranians still live in LaLa Land?

This is why I strongly emphasize that we must end the Culture of Slavery and the Shiite Mentality in Iran. Iranian Muslim, Bahai, Jew, Christian, etc. no matter what, they are all infected with the Shiite Mentality because they are the products of growing up in that infested community no matter inside or outside Iran.

We must destroy the prison of the mind and break the chain and cycle of abuse. We must at last break this round and round cycle which goes from generation to generation and empowers the corruption and the medieval values rather than Pure Persian Pride and the Persianhood!

In hope for better days,

More power to all freedom fighters of Iran

Amen!

AX
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Re: Reza Shah vs. Mohammad Reza Shah

Postby Ahreeman X » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:59 pm

Verdict on Shah and the Future!

Iranians by majority are biased rather than logical. They are not fair judges of characters. Either they scream Javid shah (like monarchists) or they scream Marg Bar Shah (like Anti Monarchists). There are few fair & balanced Iranian scholars & Abbas Milani is one of them. We need to have a fair look at the history & avoid speaking with our hearts. In my opinion, Shah had done negative actions & positive actions but overall, his positive actions overcame his negative actions. Shah had done many goods for Iran but after all, there exists 4 major critics on him & for most these flaws caused his downfall:

I. Shah was a Muslim, unlike his father Reza Shah who was a Secular Anti Islam Nationalist. This caused Shah to be soft on Ayatollahs & Islam. In fact, Shah was a superstitious Muslim. If Shah was secular & tough on Islam, then IRI would have not come to power.

II. Shah was a coward & a weak person. He abandoned Iran in 2 separate occasions on 1953 & 1979. Reza Shah would have never escaped; on the contrary he would stand his ground & fight to the bitter end. Allies practically kicked Reza Shah out of Iran or else he would never leave.

III. Shah in nature was Anti Democratic, despotic & believed in monarchy. On the contrary, Reza Shah believed in Republic & wanted to become the first president of Iran but monarchists & Mullahs, hand in hand forced him to become Shah. If Reza Shah would become president, as he desired, then Islamic revolution would have never occurred. Shah unlike his father believed in monarchy but he did not have the Balls of Steel (like his father) to govern the nation. On a slight unrest (1953 & 1979) he abandoned Iran & escaped to exile.

However, over all, I have to admit that Shah had done many goods for Iran & his good was more than his bad which he had done for Iran. But we have to admit that it was on his watch that Islam took over Iran and IRI was born. So the greatest critic on Shah is:

IV. Shah allowed IRI to gain control & rule Iran. IRI was born due to Shah’s weakness. Reza Shah would have never allowed for Islam to take over Iran!

This is all history & we must look towards future. Good or bad, Shah is gone, what now? Iranians must learn to stand on their own feet & commit to a revolution to overthrow IRI. There is no more Reza Shah to save the day. Now there are losers like Reza Pahlavi who has been sitting in exile for 34 years & doing absolutely nothing about IRI. So I suggest, stand up on your own or else accept IRI as your masters & Islam as your motto & Allah as your God! You don’t like it? Then do something about it. Shouting Javid Shah or Marg bar Shah will do nothing for you & will not save you from IRI. Wake up & do action!

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