Nicholas Ginex vs. Ahreeman X: Philosophy of Existence

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Re: Nicholas Ginex vs. Ahreeman X (Philosophy of Existence)

Postby Ahreeman X » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:22 am

Nicholas Ginex vs. Ahreeman X: Philosophy of Existence Debate
Philosophy of Existence: How Everything Came to Existence?
3 Parts: Micro Aspects, Macro Aspects and General Aspects


Ongoing Online Philosophical and Scientific Debate
Food for Seekers Brains!


Return of Ahreeman X

*

Image
Theory of Everything explains the fundamental question of philosophy:
How has everything started to exist?


Who Created the Multiverse?

The Conservation Law of Matters and Energies in physics teaches us that all matters and energies were never born and will never be destroyed, yet they have always been changing from one form to another eternally. This is not a theory but a law of physics. In other words, the Multiverse has always been there and it will always be here forever ….

Hard to picture?
Try this:

Look at the whole universe (and all universes) as a graph. If we draw this graph:

It will not look like a line with eternal beginning and ending.
It will not look like a circle with a beginning point and an ending point.
But,
It will look like a moving “Snake” which his body is a series of circle loops:

Image
Crawling Snake Graph of the Multiverse

These circle loops almost close and form perfect circles, but the key word is almost! These circle loops are eternal. They come from Forever and they will go to Forever. Each circle loop almost closes to form a circle and in that case it seems like someone like a God must have created this loop; however, each circle loop never actually closes down. Two ends of the each circle loop reaches up to a microscopic range to each other but never touches each other and forms a circle. Therefore, these series of snake-like circle loops continue forever ….

The actual graphic diagram of the Multiverse is in fact looks like a Snake with his body in to many unclosed circle loops moving from one point to another. Have you seen the way a snake moves from one point to another? That is the desired shape that I am talking about. But picture this snake as an eternal snake from both ends!


*

Greetings G Nex:

“Dr. X, your sense of humor is fascinating, as it brought a smile to my face. I was once a kid and always looked forward to Santa Claus! In fact, I played the role of Santa Claus for my four daughters before they got too wise to know it was their Dad.”


Nicholas, did you also know that there is a Muslim Santa Clause?! His name is “Sandy Khalas”! They call him Sandy Khalas because due to living in desert, his claws are sandy; also he often shoots the final shot in infidel’s brains when he says “Khalas” (finished, relax, end of the story in Arabic)! His actions on Christmas are pretty much the same as Santa Clause except that, he comes down the chimney in a Terrorist 3 holed black Ski Mask (2 for eyes and 1 for nose) and a head to toe black jump suit. Instead of bringing presents, he takes all the presents, and cash too, puts a hejab on family’s dog and convert her to Islam, eats the cookies, drinks the milk and leaves a Quran instead, then he blows up the Christmas tree before he goes back up the chimney! Very few infidel kids have seen him in person because if they are not dressed Islamically correct, he tends to 50 lashes them and read a Sourah of Quran to them on not to eat Pork Chops during the Holidays!

How can you tell if Sandy Khalas has been in your house?

Because after a week gradually your son recites verses of Quran, grows a beard and wears a beanie hat! Also your daughter starts wearing head scarf, completely covers her head and asks you to buy only Halaal snacks!

So Sandy Khalas comes, eats the cookies (make sure cookies are Halaal), drinks the milk, takes all the cash, and if you’re bad, sometimes he shoots you and makes you Khalas (finishes you so you can relax for eternity)! He is Sandy and Khalas you (end of the story), praise be Upon Allah!

…. And that is the legend of “Sandy Khalas”!

“This consciousness I try to comprehend is forever growing, like a baby. For the consciousness that formed the first atom is very different from the consciousness that created the stars, the galaxies, and the universe. It finds itself in the creation of matter that can develop (from inorganic) into organic life that have very different levels of consciousness.”


Yes, the consciousness evolves like everything else evolves, the same as a child evolves, the Universal Intelligence of millions of years ago is way different than the Universal Intelligence of today and tomorrow! The only absolute element is “change” and “Change” can cause “Evolution” which without it everything stagnates like the “Islamic Doctrine”!

“The only thing I like to clarify is that Universal Intelligence is a new term with many different ways to interpret it. First, what level of intelligence are we talking about and in what way is it universal?”


Level of intelligence is relative to the time period in history of the universe or universes. As you stated, it evolves. The reason it is universal is that technically “Universal Intelligence” is the combine consciousness of all elements, the combine intelligence of all creatures, all and all in universal harmony. Together they build the “Universal Intelligence” which creates a system of function in the universe or universes.

If you look at each element as a micro perspective, you do not see the universality of the intelligence; however, if you look at the system with a macro perspective, then you see the totality of the system as a functioning order. There is an order within all the chaos. That is the beauty of it.

“It appears that I am starting to intimate that there may be a Spirit of intelligence that people have created within their minds as being the God of all Creation; a god which the Egyptians were perceptive and honest to say is, “incomprehensible, unknowable and mysterious. I am not certain if it is fair to write off the Egyptian priesthood as spouting their beliefs as being Religious Mumbo Jumbo.”


The God as I referred to it as a “Spirit” is not “The Creator”, because as I stated in my thesis, “Spirits” cannot exist without “Matters” and “Energies”; however, I do recognize the existence of “Spirits” as the third element. Unlike you, I do not recognize elements such as “Thought” as energy or brain waves because the definitions of Energy is way different than Thoughts.

I believe Spirits exist yet Matters created them and energies created them and without them, spirits cannot exist. I created God and not vice versa.

Brain and Mind
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

Theory of Everything
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

Alien Factor
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

Philosophical Corner!
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

Religion, Living in Fantasy
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

“In my studies of the growth of religions and the concept of God, I have learned that mankind strives to attain a higher level of moral and spiritual growth. In some small way, the consciousness that pervades the universe in also within us, the living matter that is able to not only exist but to think and perceive thoughts that go beyond our own existence. I therefore have respect and a high regard for the intelligent and perceptive beings that have formulated the laws that help to instil integrity and promote love.”


Yes but this morality and moral codes come from Man, not Spirits or God because Man created the concept of God or the Spirit factor got created by Matter and Energy. This is why some moral codes make semi sense like Christianity but some moral codes are bizarre like Islamic codes! In other words, mind of Jesus was way different than the mind of Muhammad!

“You are right. I was only referring to the highest form of intelligence on earth. But yes, there are certainly other forms of intelligent life elsewhere in our universe. However, I do not agree that Aliens genetically created us by mixing and matching us with apes and DNA that improved our ability to think. To me, that is mumbo jumbo for I believe that we humans are not far different from our four legged animals be they apes, monkeys, cats and dogs. Note, we all have the same bodily functions. Did the Aliens also help create the other animals on earth? I think not.”


Human physical functionality maybe similar but human mind due to brain complexity is far different (as the result of experiments done by aliens). I imagine you are not a fan of Ancient Astronauts Theory?! But you have to admit in case of the Missing Link, it makes sense! Something happened to create the jump and sudden evolution in that time period, the missing link!

“It seems to me, that many Middle Eastern people have been exposed to the idea that there are Spirits that hover about and affect their lives, such as the Jinn believed by Muslims. My Britannica World Dictionary provides the following definition:

Jinni. pl Jinn. In Moslem mythology, an order of supernatural beings able to assume animal or human form, and often at the service of men through some magical controlling object. Sometimes spelled djinni, genie. Also jinnee.”


No not me. Nothing is hovering! My point is that Spirits are the third element and they are not energies. If they were energies, they could also exist inside inanimate objects such as Rock!

But on the other hand, consciousness is also relative. It comes in many forms. When you see an incest eating plant, at first glance it does not move but then when a fly sits on it, it moves and eats the fly! So is it conscious? What you consider unconscious such as plants and inanimate objects, could may as well be conscious but they move and groove in a slower paste. The Rock looks inanimate to us because it is slower than us; we look inanimate to a spirit because it is faster than us but all and all we are parts of Universal Intelligence which runs the universe. Just because something does not move (in your eyes) and you cannot measure the motion and sense within it (at your functioning speed), it does not mean that it is dead because there are energies and matters everywhere and consciousness is relative the same as Time is relative (Einstein)! You should have imagination and explore possibilities. What was Sci Fi yesterday, today is Scientific Fact. Who knows about tomorrow?

“Yes, I deny the existence of Spirits and promote the idea that there is a consciousness that somehow has the will to create matter, which is then able to exist both inorganically and organically. That consciousness becomes viable when matter has developed in complex and fluid forms whereby thought processes are able to be formed. A stone is unable to form a thought, but a dog, cat, even ants as well as apes, flowers, bees, and humans are able to sense and react whereby at the higher levels of consciousness can interpret what to do next. Run or fight to stay alive.”


OK picture this (traditional way):

Evil Eye” is a concept in which one due to jealousy and evilness, bad eyes you and you get ill or something bad happens to you; therefore, you wear or display “Evil Eye” jewellery, Talisman, decor or totems to mirror the Evil Eye’s dark power back to the sender to damage him to not to harm you.

Now look at it this way (logical way):

Evil Eye” is about Bad Energy or shall we say “Negative Energy” which is intentionally or unintentionally sent by someone towards you. They may send it without even know that they are sending it because they simply have bad vibes, negative energy and dark energy. This could be due to jealousy towards you, envy to you or because they are in a Dark Place and state of mind. What you do is try to change this negative energy to positive energy so it does not harm you. You use tools and methods to reflect this negative energy to the sender so he can harm himself; therefore, you escape the negativity.

Negative or Positive Energy exists.

This is more of a logical explanation than the first scenario. Same goes for consciousness. At this point, we cannot measure consciousness within a Black Hole or Anti Matter but we see some evidence of activity and execution. Could it be that in the future we may measure this consciousness? Black Hole and Anti Matter as universal elements of today such as the wind and cloud, can very well be consciousness factors of tomorrow which can cause negative energy in their interaction with other beings such as human! There goes your “Evil Eye” history!

It is all relative and I do not believe it is Mumbo Jumbo. I also do not believe Occult is Mumbo Jumbo.

One of the most self sufficient and scientifically advanced systems in the history of the globe’s (Nazi Germany) leaders did not believe in Mumbo Jumbo! They were maybe Evil but not in to Mumbo Jumbo.

“Therefore, I still believe Energy came before Matter for it is this Energy that possesses the initial birth of consciousness. That is why I feel it begins as a baby, not knowing exactly how it will create its highest form of intelligence. But this Energy did somehow learn how to create Matter for without matter the complex forms of inorganic and organic entities cannot be created. Yes, Energy and Matter co-existed eternally for an infinite period but it was Energy that precipitated the process – at least in my mind. Finally, I equate this Energy as possessing a consciousness that develops and creates as its crowing purpose in its life-type existence. Inherent in that purpose, its will to exist has become a part of all living matter.”


Artificial Intelligence

How about Robotics? We have already created Artificial Intelligence and tomorrow at the point of Singularity, if not careful, Artificial Intelligence can take over control from Human! Computers and Robots can take over simply because they are more logical than human and less emotional than human. So what are they? Where would they fit in your universe? Conscious? Matters and Energies? What does that make us? God? But then again This God will be weaker than its Creation! So could our God be weaker than us? Could we be superior to our God, who created us but we surpassed him? Think about it?

“Dr. X, in response to my analogy of the atom being very similar to our solar system”


Very good observation on the similarity

“Like you, I do not define consciousness as a single God who created all, but I do not subscribe to this consciousness as being ‘Universal Intelligence.’ Such a term implies an intelligence that is universal or the same throughout the universe. Just as we do not know god we do not know what this Universal Intelligence (UI) is. At what level of intelligence does it exist and is it the same everywhere? I believe if you want to use the term UI, then one must be careful to not try to quantify it for I believe it is a consciousness that like a baby, has grown, and after many trillions of years, constructed many ways to build our universe with all its different forms of matter, which can also come to life as organic matter.”


Universal Intelligence should not be looked at as an intelligence which is the same quality or quantity everywhere; however, it should be comprehended as the combine intelligence of all intelligent forms of animated or inanimated (as long as we cannot be sure if there is no intelligence within them) elements. It is universal as a specific quantity and quality everywhere but it is universal because it covers all intelligence everywhere in the universes or at least our universe.

“Therefore, even God, if we were to believe in such an entity as UI, had to have been a baby and grew over the period of infinity to become a consciousness that pervades the universe.”


Universal Intelligence and God

Now, as you believe I might be infected with Middle Eastern thought pattern on spirits and assume they are hovering like Jinns, I also know that you are infected with the most basic human concept which assumes:

If there is a creation,
Then there must be a creator!


No there is no creator as a God. No creator created the universe.

There is a big difference between Universal Intelligence and God. Even though this existence (shall we call it) had evolved through the years (millions and billions of years) and it is constantly evolving (like everything else), yet this entity is not a single creator because it is the combine intelligence of all intelligent forms around the universe. The interaction between “All” intelligence makes the whole system to function.

You look at it as an Abrahamian Version of God but I look at it as a Scientific Entity. Even though you are a scientist and an engineer, yet subconsciously you categorize it as “A Spirit” or “A God”. Get my drift? Your God functions and operates as a Spirit (even though he is Energy)!

Now for something totally different!

Universal Intelligence, the same as all intelligent forms, can evolve, mutate or devolve in a manner that a specie can adopt and survive, mutate and evolve or not adopt and become extinct or mutate and devolve! But when a specie evolves or devolves, this process happens to that specie; however, when you expand this to UI, then you must consider that in this UI, many species evolve, many devolve, many survive and many extinct, yet in all, UI changes status towards evolving, devolving, mutating and surviving, but UI can never be born or be extinct. UI is eternal, no beginning and no end.

“So Dr. X, are we both saying that Consciousness and UI are the same thing? If so, I prefer Consciousness because I have no idea what UI is because Intelligence signifies an entity and I do not envision an entity such as God.”


Quality of UI

Consciousness is a quality and a status of existence.
Universal Intelligence is a collective of Consciousness from “All”.


“The UI or Consciousness, to me, like everything else, came from something. Whether it was first in the form of Energy or Matter is a question that scientists may never agree on. The only reason why I subscribe to Energy as being first is that Matter by itself does not possess the Will to Exist. That Energy was very likely the magnetic, electrical and gravitational forces that are inherent in Matter. But I believe Matter is a static entity while Energy is viable force that is mobile and has the Will to exist. That is why I feel Energy created Matter and is the Consciousness that is the Creator of the Universe.”


Universal Intelligence has always been there and will always be there. It came from eternity and it will be until infinity.

Even though you still have issues with the “Scientific Law” (not theory):

Conservation Law of Matters and Energies, which states:

“Matters and Energies were never created and will never destroy but they continuously change from one form to another (and to each other).”

Which is still puzzling because how and why can a scientist (like you) have an issue with a scientific law (not theory)?

So it is pretty hard to pinpoint the very first element to be energy or matter because they both have always been there.

Have in mind that there is a very thin line between describing certain entities as matters or energy! In certain forms, an element may seem like both or look like one and act as the other or vice versa. That thin line can be vanished in some cases because Matters and Energies in many occasions look and act pretty similar. Or one maybe about to transfer to the other form so it is pretty hard to tell which is it?

“Dr, X, we are in close agreement except that “Spirits” are the inherent embodiment of consciousness that is able to express itself in organic life,”


Yes indeed, you put that in wonderful words, so scientifically correct and so logical.

“You know, I could not be more blessed to have a friend, a highly intelligent man, who likes how I think. But you do more than like a person, you give of yourself to uplift and enhance the lives of others. I am blessed to have a gift like you in my life for through you the world may yet get to know more about me. Thank you Brother X.”


Do not go sentimental on me G Nex!

It is true; one should make a difference to the society before he dies. This difference comes in many forms and one form is affecting the lives of others, especially the lives of intelligent life forms (such as you) and not necessarily Cattle (like Followers of Muhammad)! Go figure!

“Muslims worry too much about Jinns, which is an indication of their mental development. At least they believe in one-universal God Allah.”


Abrahamian Gods

Allah is far from God or Universal Intelligence. What kind of God requires worship, requires Rights, have mood changes, threatens, gets angry and destroys, gets psychotic and gets revenge or banish civilizations. Allah is a twisted creation from the mind of Muhammad but in that manner, all Abrahamic Gods including Yahweh the Jew God have all these human like emotions, mood swings and anger!

This is why the whole concept of God as a Supreme Spirit in Abrahamic Religions particularly Allah is comical and made belief for simple minds or religious people.

Universal Intelligence is a scientific approach and science age definition for a primitive term such as God.

God is a storybook fairytale for adults but Universal Intelligence is a comprehensive interactive phenomenon which you and I are parts of it.

“Universal Intelligence (UI) is a concept because nobody knows what this intelligence is.”


Yes we do and yes you do too! I prove it that you do too!

“ Does it exist as it does in a human being, a bird, or an ant?”


It exists in “All” and furthermore, it is “All”, the combination of “All”!

“The level of UI is, at least to me, a consciousness that exists at all levels of development from the smallest atom to a complex galaxy with many stars and life forms. Yes, UI and consciousness may be thought as being energies. But they exist at many different levels until consciousness reaches its highest level, the ability to think and reflect on the universe itself. This may be the crowning glory of UI or consciousness that started as a baby, only simple atoms, that after many trillions of years developed the high form of intelligent being that is able to think about who or what created it.”


You have just answered yourself! First you asked a question, then you made a statement that no one knows, next you answered yourself and proved to yourself that your question was flawed and your primary line of reasoning was primitive. In a way you answered yourself with much intellectual prejudice! I think you have just evolved, made a mental mutation, a jump and you have become a Higher Form of Intelligence! Therefore, now your contribution to the Universal Intelligence is at a higher level and a higher frequency!

I, as the representative and the “Harbinger of Universal Intelligence” named Ahreeman, thank you for your Self Evolution and Total Contribution to human consciousness advancement and Universal Intelligence progression!

Amen!

Sign,

I, the Harbinger of UI
Ahreeman X

“I have to show your complement because you made my day to credit me as being a philosopher.”


I did not credit you or make or declare you a philosopher; thus, you are a philosopher. Maybe you did not know it or doubted it. I just brought this fact out from your soul and psyche and dragged it out to life; therefore, I now declare you:

Philosopher G Nex, formerly known as a Mythical Being, the Saint Nicholas!

Now after removing my sword from the top of your head and declaring you (not a title) a philosopher, I also bless you in the name of Father (from Under), the Son (Ahreeman) and the Dark Holy Spirit (the Raven) connecting the two! Now that was the Dark version of Trinity! Thus I am on the Dark Side!

“We both agree that it did not all start with the Big Bang.”


No it did not. I am for a “Snake Theory” almost connecting loops of snake’s body but not actually touching. It is a snake like graph from eternity until infinity, a never beginning and never ending universe of transforming elements, no beginning, no end, no big bang, no god!

Theory of Everything
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

“You wrote that in the future the brain can be transplanted, artificial intelligence, cloning, and consciousness built into machines will become a reality. True, but then happiness cannot be fully appreciated for one must know sorrow and disappointments to feel the joys of life. Will preprogrammed minds be able to reach the level of hypothetical thinking and the physical sensations that consciousness has willed into our bodies? Namely, will life still laugh, cry, and enjoy the sensations of physical love and creative mental thought?”


Beautifully stated. We will create advanced robots, androids, artificial intelligence and so on but can we recreate the human experience? I doubt if we can ever!

To create consciousness maybe not that hard but to create the Soul is dead hard!

Now go figure the definition for the element of “Soul”!

Here we go again: Energy, Matter, Spirit, Chopped Liver, Cheetos Puff, Fragrance, ..... yet another G Nex Ahreemanic philosophical debate! Praise the Lord! Have mercy on people’s souls!

The Nun and the Priest at the corner forming crosses on their chests while whispering gently in repetition:

Have mercy on my soul
Have mercy on my soul
Have mercy on my soul
Have mercy on my soul
Have mercy on my soul …..
Can’t take anymore of these 2 thus I am getting brain-ache due to all this philosophy!

Have mercy on my soul
Have mercy on my soul …..
Have mercy on my souuuuuuuuuuuuul …..

“Thank you Brother X for enlightening me to know that it was an Iranian, Salman Farsi, that was Muhammad’s left hand that led to the beliefs that were put down in the infamous Qur’an. You have indicated that is about 222 years in the struggle of Iran’s independence. You also wrote that Muhammad, Ali, and Abu Bakr were instrumental in writing the Qur’an. My research indicated that Muhammad could not read or write and that it was his Companions that put together the Qur’an about 20 years after the death of Muhammad in 632 CE. Perhaps you have data to indicate if true or otherwise.”


Salman was the Mazdakite Marxist brain and author behind Quran. I believe that Muhammad was extremely intelligent and despite the fact that he could not read or write, yet he transformed all the Islamic Doctrine to Salman and Ali to put on paper. Others believe that Muhammad could read and write and then there are others who believe that Quran was written decades later after Muhammad.

222 Years of Struggle for Independence of Iran
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/library/eng ... /index.htm

“Dr. X your library that presents a History of Iran and its many great Persians, such as Cyrus the Great, is to be commended. You have provided a source of information that is invaluable for mankind to refer to in the years to come.”


IPC Iran Online Library is the largest Iranian Online Library in both English and Persian which is like UI evolving and getting more and more completed! In the future, after we are all gone, it will still remain on the net, even if not on the server, on the Internet Archives and it will show traces of once existed “Great Civilization” named IPC which tried to advance the human civilization more and more towards Evolution of Perfection and Knowledge.

Internet Archive
https://archive.org/

Nicholas:
“You have confirmed what I have also concluded about there being only two types of Muslims. I repeat it below for our misinformed Americans who would love to accommodate President Obama’s desire to have hundreds of thousands of Muslims enter the United States.”


Ahreeman:
‘There are only 2 types of Muslims:

1. True Muslims
Example: ISIS and Al Qaeda
Who follow Quran and Muhammad word by word
Muhammad was a terrorist and Quran is a Terror manual.

2. Ignorant Muslims
Majority of Muslims in the world and Rag heads in America who never read Quran but follow Islam because their parents and grandparents were Muslims!’


Yes, the worst part is that majority of Muslims have never read Quran but believe in it and defend it to death! How idiotic is that?

“It is true that Islam is far worse that Nazism and Communism for their objective is for Islam to dominate the world with an outdated and poorly written document titled, The Qur’an.”


No, Islam is far worse than Nazism and Communism because:

I. Islam poses as a Religion and has the power of Religion behind it to carry a herd of ignorant followers behind it as cattle.

II. Islam has political correctness and liberals in the west behind it who ignorantly give it legitimacy as a legitimate religion with rights to coexist with!

III. Islam believes in Taqiyah (justified lies) which makes any Muslim to pose and act as chameleon to make the infidels to believe in “Islam Religion of Peace” and “Moderate Muslims” and so on which will be the end of the Western Civilization. As in practice, you can see what Islam is doing to Europe but Hopefully, Trumpism is stopping it to occur in America! A year ago when we did the last part of this debate during the Obama Era, hope was slim but now after Trump presidency, there exists hope for Western Civilization and Persian Civilization because as I always states: Regime change in Iran requires Regime change in America! Well, one down, one to go!


Islam is a Disease and Muslims are Infected
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/islam/islam ... /index.htm

Islam, a Dangerous Political Ideology!
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/islam/islam ... /index.htm

“Dr.X, I disagree that, in some way, we live another life as energy and in a way our intelligence becomes a part of Universal Intelligence. After we die, as energy we are no longer independent-thinking energies. Only fragments of generated wave thoughts may still linger in space. Our personality, based upon the parts of a living body does no longer exist. Yes, what energy floats in space to join UI has no real significance any longer. Sorry to disappoint the believers that there is of afterlife living as some sort of Spirit. But life ends when your heart stops to feed nourishing blood to the brain, which allows the mind to be active. The Hereafter is a religious belief to induce people to follow a certain path or set of rules.”


Yes But still I insist that in a way, we do live another life as energy, and matter changes form and we become released energy joining all universal energy or shall we color it in a way that our intelligence becomes a part of the “Universal Intelligence.

Existence is existence and who came back from afterlife to report the measurements of it? Who knows what will happen? Afterlife is nothing like what Abrahamian Religions describe as Heaven and Hell or Reincarnation as Hindus report; however, there is an afterlife as energy and matter.

One’s matters will be reincarnated as other living forms (worms and maggots eat your dead body and you become them, they fertilize the soil which grows grass and cow eats grass and you become cow) and your energy leaves this earth and joins other energies. Further studies are needed to see possible more advance testifies of what happens afterlife or how advance will be this afterlife but I can assure you that there will be afterlife and you become matter and energy and you will not be vanished from this universe! Now this afterlife may not be what Muahammad or Jesus or Moses predicted but there is an afterlife, a more logical one that Ahreeman predicted!

“I do not believe that that our intelligence joins what you call Universal Intelligence after death. I do not believe that humans have spirits or an intelligence that continues on to join UI. Yes, our bodies decay and may serve as matter that may be transformed into some other life form. But the mental thoughts, transmitted as brain waves created by our hearts and minds, will no longer be generated. Once the brain, the transmitter, has died thoughts are no longer created.”


I did not say that your thoughts will be transferred to UI as the present form but in some form of energy. How primitive or advance it may be, presently we do not have the proper tools to measure but one thing is for sure, they will not be as they are now in your brain!

However, if you want to be a party pooper and destroy religious people’s hopes and dreams and 72 virgins, then be like that and see where does that take you? In depth of infidel hell, that is where it takes you, ... you irredeemable infidel!

“The idea that our brain waves enter the universe and may be part of Universal Intelligence is valid; but only while we are alive and well. Matter and Energy will create other forms of inorganic and organic matter, but never will these forms possess the original thoughts that were created by former living entities.”


Yes but they can produce far more advance beings, thought patterns and intelligence which can contribute to the UI. We simply do not have the proper tools to measure that yet!

We simply do not know what will occur, how advanced of transaction will be this transformation of us at the moment of death and afterlife? There is life after death because death is not absolute and life continues. How this afterlife may suit people now and how they may like it is another issue but surely there is life because life never ends but it changes forms. Death in itself is another form of life. Matters survive and energies survive but they change forms. I conclude that there will be life, not as this consciousness exists now but maybe higher or lower consciousness! Nothing disappears and everything survives.

Actually parts of this survival will join UI and some parts will become a shining star! Technically speaking that is!

“I will add to your theory and that is small fragments of thought enter the universe to join a Consciousness that has existed for eternity. It is this Consciousness that has the will to create Matter, which will consist of inorganic and organic entities. Hopefully, this Consciousness, that pervades the Universe, will succeed in creating life forms that are capable of constructing thoughts that may eventually reach back out into the Universe and perhaps, someday, will appreciate and understand its power. The energy forces that began as a baby but has grown to attain its crowning achievement – life forms it could be proud of. The respect given to this Consciousness is to name it God – the Creator of all there is.”


No, even though the logic was scientific but naming it God due to respect or no respect, colors it theological and religious! This is not God but this is a scientific entity of collective consciousness named Universal Intelligence. It did not create everything, it will not destroy everything but it is every thing! It is ever existing everything and it is the force behind creation of every thing as we know it and much more that we do not know. It is the engine behind the element as we define as “Creation” which in fact it is an oxymoron because nothing gets created or destroyed; therefore, it is best to be referred to as “Transformation”! UI is the force behind “Transformation” of the Universe and Transformation of Earth and Creatures as we know it to now and to the future forms.

I am UI, you are UI and UI is “All”. This concept may be too hard to comprehend for human, but the fact is that “UI” is “All”. UI is collective of All Intelligence existing.

A Traditional Creator needing human mind can hardly digest this scientific logic!

“Thoughts are constructed due to matter, our brain, and energy that gives rise to consciousness. It has nothing to do with spirits. Our mind is what we are blessed with to create simple and complex ideas. These ideas originate out of necessity to live with one another. That is how morality and integrity came to be. We learned that by being nice to one another we can have more friendships and live happier lives as we build communities together.”


Interesting how you define Morality. Interesting perspective. Morality has nothing to do with religion, God and spirits. Morality has everything to do with human concept of creating functioning societies to interact and socialize as a necessity to seek good interaction with others.

“Brother X, it appears that you are a believer in a Spirit. If so, you might as well as define that Spirit as God. Or, you may believe that all humans have spirits because they have a mind that is capable of thought that creates the idea of a Spirit. You indicated that many classical and modern philosophers define the spirit as an element because you cannot see or feel it. That is, it is not part of the 5 senses. I say, so what. Why does thought have to be tasted, heard, touched, seen or smelled?”


Because that is the scientific way and method!

“Thought cannot be any of the 5 senses because thought consists of transmitted waves, which are devoid of the 5 senses.”


Waves can be measured with 5 senses indirectly (with tools). Therefore, thoughts are not waves, they may act as waves and travel as waves but they are not energy waves. That is why we define them as Spirits (many philosophers and scientists). Why? Because we cannot measure them with 5 senses or identify them with 5 senses.

“I believe I have already expressed what is thought, mind and consciousness.”


Yes but that is not the scientific definition of thoughts. It cannot be proved scientifically.

“I do not equate Consciousness with Spirit. It is energy that is created by the body whereby the heart sustains the flow of blood and nourishment to the brain that allows the mind to create thoughts. So yes, I believe that the concept of a Spirit is a figment of our imagination just as is the concept of God.”


But scientifically speaking, my method is the best scientific method to scientifically prove that Man made God and not vice versa. This is factual proof to turn a theologician in to a scientist, a holy man in to an atheist.

“Now, Brother X, you accuse me of picking and choosing my own scientific laws because I deviate from the theory of Conservation of Matter and Energy.”


But you do!

“This makes me sound like a deranged person.”


No it makes you sound like a stubborn scientist who is trying to get away with something unscientific to prove his point of view!

“To this accusation I can only say, there are exceptions to any law.”


No not scientific laws because they are not theories.

“For I believe that for anything to exist there must be a beginning. To say Energy and Matter always existed makes no sense to me. There is a beginning for everything.”


Because that is how traditional human mind works, it is limited to believe in a creator and a creation. Even the most scientific minds like you still have the old theological concept built deep into his psyche to believe in this traditional concept. It is theism and makes you a theist and we must reject it by scientific anti theism which makes you an atheist which is an anti theist.

Ahreeman:
“In a way, don’t you think, subconsciously, you are replacing a “Creator spirit” with a “Creator Energy” which is more scientific; however, you are still creating a Creator?”


Nicholas:
“Yes, I am creating a Creator, which I refer to as Consciousness because even the Creator (God) has a beginning. That is why I characterize Consciousness as being a baby at the very beginning. It took trillions of years for this baby to realize it was capable of having magnetic, electrical and gravitational powers that eventually enabled it to create Matter. Matter contained particles, ever so small, that was able to combine into little solar systems, which we call the atom. And it is the atom that has become the basic building block of all inorganic and organic entities.”


One question sir:

Who created your god?

Dango ate your god!

Do you see the problem with this?
And who created the god who created your god?
And ......

Eventually you must come up with the answer or state that your god is eternal and infinite which in your case, your god is pure energy, so to declare that, it makes you a believe in the scientific law, the Conservation Law of Matters and Energies. Do you see the fallacy in your logic which is in fact illogic?


Ahreeman:
“Why is it so hard to believe that even at the beginning point, there existed no Creator? No creator because there was no beginning and there will be no end!”


Nicholas:
“To you, and all the great scientific minds and philosophers, I simply believe that everything has a beginning. To me, this is a fundamental concept. My simple concept has nothing to do or compares with the Big Bang Theory because the big bang had to have been due to the extreme gravitational forces that exploded matter and energy out into the universe. But first, it was Consciousness that existed that brought all the particles and atoms together, which caused such high pressures and heat that the Big Bang occurred. We have had other big bangs due to black holes, pulsars and quasars that releases energy and matter back out into the universe.”


The Creator factor is illogical and unscientific. For a scientific person such as you, this is a No No!

Nicholas:
“I will agree with you that my theory is hypothetical and is not based on scientific laws.”


Actually your theory is hypocritical because you are a scientist and an engineer and your theory is LaLa Landish! But then again, I seen worse!

“But nevertheless, I cannot agree that Matter always existed with Energy. These are two very different entities or things.”


Actually in a many occasions, they come very close to each other to the point that sometimes one cannot distinguish between the two! For instance, at the point of transformation from one form to another, fractions and particles of matter become very close and could be mistaken with some energies (certain cases).

Other times, they seem like two different elements!

“I guess we have the classical argument, which came first the chicken or the egg?”


Santa Clause did!

Actually for you it is the case of Chicken or Egg?

For me they always co existed and Ol’ McDonald ran them in the farm!

“The simple answer is that there was a Consciousness that existed in the beginning that started out as a baby as it created matter from its energy sources. This baby became a creator as it found it could create great bodies of stars and planets, which eventually gave birth to organic life forms. So yes, the Creator was a child that after trillions of years, was able to give rise to matter that could sustain life. You can call this initial Consciousness the Creator or God; I have no problem with that. I do believe that it is this Consciousness that pervades the Universe. Other people, because they do not like the word God because of the stigma it connotes after having been misled by corrupted religious organizations, I agree that they should call this Consciousness – Universal Intelligence, which infers it has the ability to create as well. So, in essence, we can call Consciousness the Creator.”


You see, if you look at it and define it in that perspective (which is not scientific but it is your theory), then not that you defy the Conservation Law of Matters and Energies, yet somewhat you defy Einstein’s Relativity and Darwin’s Origin of Species. Your Creator once again becomes a Godlike figure which created everything.

You are just putting a coat of science on top of this creator by calling it energy, also you are putting a coat of evolution on this creator by calling it a baby at the beginning, yet the concept of creation still exists.

This complete theory is not scientific. It may be logical to you but scientifically it is flawed. And then you have the nerve to tell me that UI may not make sense?!

Universal Intelligence is far different than your Evolved Baby Creator. UI did not create anything but aided them to evolve. Also no one created UI and no one can destroy it.

I look at this issue from a philosophical materialistic point of view and a scientific point of view.

Yes, your god and UI are both intelligent and are consciousness but the quality of UI is not a single entity or a person. UI is a collective of billions of intelligence in universe that they all work together and co exist. They do not create things but they evolve things.

Your creator is a single entity like a person (in your case energy) who was a baby and now grown and created everything. This is the same as God but not in spiritual form.

You behave, think and act as a theist but with a scientific coating of your ideas. You defy laws and theories of science and bring this theory to life without any scientific backing. This is why I refer to what you are doing as mix and matching theories and laws as it suits you. Christian Scientists (oxymoronic) also do that!

This is where science becomes hypocrisy! This is where you become a hypocrite! In other words, you are a creationist in disguise with a scientific coat of paint on your ideas and maybe that is why you are so keen on Jesus and past prophets where as a scientist I have no respect for them!

I do not have a theory. I believe in Dialectical Materialism and Philosophical Materialism and Pure Science. Science is my God. My Universal Intelligence is compatible with scientific laws and theories. I may get symbolic at times and go Sci Fi at times but I do not mix and match laws and theories of science as they suit me nor I reject scientific facts and theories.

So in this manner, even though many of our common grounds brings us close philosophically, yet fundamentally your Energy Baby God Concept is a world apart than UI.

At the end of the day, I am a Materialist and even though you do not believe in Spirits, yet your Creator sounds, acts and defines as one! Still you believe in a creator but I believe in Science and nothing but Science.

What I am trying to do is to make UI scientifically compatible.

Again, who created your creator and who created the creator of your creator?
It is not logical! It is not scientific!

But I still take your theory over the Church and Pope!

“I read about your trip to the Bermuda Triangle and your adventure that almost brought immediate and irreversible danger. You lead a very intriguing and interesting life. Your quest to understand the unknown is admirable and it’s because you thirst for knowledge and the truth. I, and your readers look forward to you eventually writing about your experiences within the Bermuda Triangle.”


Eventually

“It was a long time before you found enough space from all your projects and responsibilities to respond to my last set of comments. We learn and explore ideas together and that is what I enjoy with you. Call it the romance of the minds.”


As long as we don’t call it a Bromance or a Gay Romance!

“If you were a woman, I would find you very intriguing in other ways.”


Did you just call me a Crossdresser?

“ Being able to express my thoughts to you, where I have not had the pleasure with others, has helped me to better articulate ideas that I normally don’t talk about. This is good because I also learn more about myself as well as you, another human being that is a gift to me.”


We better stop it right there because I think you are coming out of the closet!

“Amen! By the way, I am convinced that Amen is the name of God. At least, the God mankind has conceptualized and believes in.”


Amen Brother!

You know what I have just noticed?

These philosophical debates of ours have been going on for years! It takes a year to respond back and each post is 15 pages long! For a lengthy debate, well anticipating debate and time consuming debate, I notice that a ton of people follow these debates! Obviously people who follow this thread are Free Thinkers, Heavy Thinkers and Deep Thinkers because if they were not, then they would have not been following this for years!

This thread is very intriguing, educational and explosive for us and for all to explore, think and learn from. This is a type of thread which is making people to think and that is exactly my intention. It is always great to debate with you and hear new approaches and concepts from you. Surely you are a polished and knowledgeable mind to explore and consort with.

By the end of each 15 or 17 pages long post, I know I get brain-ache hopefully not brain damage! Just imagine how the readers feel!

Philosophy is a tough subject to read, follow, learn and debate, yet I have to admit that it is mind blowing, educational and addictive.

This is a thread for Deep Thinkers to follow and for us to enjoy.

Good debate and always a pleasure picking your mind. The readers love this debate (you can tell by the traffic) and one day we should publish it as an online book.

I bet with you that:

Zarathustra Spitmata’s spirit
Friedrich Nietzsche’s spirit
Bertrand Russell’s spirit
Charles Darwin’s spirit
Albert Einstein’s spirit
Gene Roddenberry’s spirit
Carl Sagan’s spirit
Stephen Hawking’s soul
Neil deGrasse Tyson’s soul


.... and the rest of the Greats’ spirits and souls are at this point of time and place looking down at us and they are with us, praising our efforts and action to conduct this philosophical and scientific debate to evolve the mental capacity and thought patterns of humanity. They are all telling us:

Amen!

Dr. X
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Re: Nicholas Ginex vs. Ahreeman X (Philosophy of Existence)

Postby Nicholas Ginex » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:52 am

Nicholas Ginex vs. Ahreeman X: Philosophy of Existence Debate
Philosophy of Existence: How Everything Came to Existence?
3 Parts: Micro Aspects, Macro Aspects and General Aspects


Ongoing Online Philosophical and Scientific Debate
Food for Seekers Brains!

Return of Ahreeman X


Response by Nicholas Ginex » Tues March 14, 2017

Dear Dr. Ahreeman,

This morning I was about to practice my songs for an April Showers gig at a Senior Care Center, Seaside Terrace in Fountain Valley. But after reading your opening greeting I had to forego practice and respond to your exceptional sense of humor about the Muslim Santa Clause, appropriately titled, The Legend of “Sandy Khalas.” Once again you made me laugh. It’s great to start the day with laughter. I must say your rendition of Santa Claus should be a Muslim classic for adults and children of any country.

I liked your response to my thoughts about consciousness, a universe phenomenon. To me, it is somewhat like a baby that grows and behold, after many trillions of years it has created life from inorganic matter that is capable of thinking. I liked your reasoning about intelligence of the universe whereby you wrote:

Level of intelligence is relative to the time period in history of the universe or universes. As you stated, it evolves. The reason it is universal is that technically “Universal Intelligence” is the combine consciousness of all elements, the combine intelligence of all creatures, all and all in universal harmony. Together they build the “Universal Intelligence” which creates a system of function in the universe or universes.

If you look at each element as a micro perspective, you do not see the universality of the intelligence; however, if you look at the system with a macro perspective, then you see the totality of the system as a functioning order. There is an order within all the chaos. That is the beauty of it.


The level of intelligence varies with respect to the complexity of the life form created. True, Universal Intelligence exists, but in many forms and at many different levels, depending of the evolution of the life form to finally articulate thoughts and transfer knowledge and experiences to other life forms. Yes, there is a complete system that is in harmony with all the elements created by Universal Intelligence, but this intelligence exists at many levels.

With respect to your statement that, “Spirits cannot exist without matters and energies,” My position is that there are no “Spirits” that exist in the universe. Just as there is no God but a spirit conceived by man in the universe. You wrote,

I believe Spirits exist yet Matters created them and energies created them and without them, spirits cannot exist. I created God and not vice versa.


This statement is in agreement with me in that just as you create God so do you create the idea of a “Spirit.” It is our thoughts that create Spirits and God, where God is another form of spirit visualized by the human being. Therefore, “Spirits” is not a third element in the Universe. It is the combination of atoms that form elements and substances that finally evolve into organic life that is capable of thinking. The higher life forms, like human beings, are capable of thought to reach out into the Universe and try to understand how it all happened. This is the crowning glory of the Universe; that its own creations may come to understand how and why “IT” exists.

Dr. X, you wrote that you believe aliens have provided the missing link or DNA in humans to create the jump and sudden evolution in a distant time period as follows:

Human physical functionality maybe similar but human mind due to brain complexity is far different (as the result of experiments done by aliens). I imagine you are not a fan of Ancient Astronauts Theory?! But you have to admit in case of the Missing Link, it makes sense! Something happened to create the jump and sudden evolution in that time period, the missing link!


I need to state that it is foolish to believe some aliens conducted experiments that advanced man to another level of evolution and have something to do with the Missing Link. Yes, it is possible for alien visitors to conduct experiments for a small segment of people somewhere in Africa. But this theory falls apart when one considers that there are millions of human beings that evolved on many continents of our earth. It is known that humans with advanced brain functionality exist not only in Africa but in other lands, which means the aliens could NOT have tampered with the DNA of all the other races around the globe.

As you so aptly pointed out, evolution produces change into ever higher complex life forms. Let us give credit to the human beings that invented light, the computer, machines that take us to into space, and TV where we are able to see an image emanating from another point. Scientists and physicists have been able to obtain greater understanding of the atom and its sub particles. These are human achievements borne out of the thoughts of the human mind and no alien had anything to do with these marvellous inventions.

But what has not been defined is how energy, be it gravitational, magnetic and electrical, originated as a force. You wrote that Spirits are a third element and they are not energies. I agree with you but in what way is a Spirit or Spirits a third element? It you consider “Spirit” as a form of consciousness that may be a possibility. But a Spirit that designs the end products of each element in the Universe is not believable, at least to me. For then, you will be defining some sort of God that is designing and controlling the development of the Universe.

Dr. X, you stated,

My point is that Spirits are the third element and they are not energies. If they were energies, they could also exist inside inanimate objects such as Rock!


And then wrote,

But on the other hand, consciousness is also relative. It comes in many forms. When you see an incest eating plant, at first glance it does not move but then when a fly sits on it, it moves and eats the fly! So is it conscious?


Yes, the plant feels sunlight and enjoys rain. The fly has a level of consciousness that is able to respond to its senses. You can tell when a plant, tree or flower is happy. However, like the fly-eating plant, there are different levels of consciousness. Is there consciousness in a rock? No. A rock is an inorganic form versus an organic form that has some kind of moving parts or apparatus that sustains its life. Elements by themselves, iron, silver, gold, and rocks, which are inanimate, do not think. There needs to be some level of fluid in organic form to allow it to function and with an evolved mind, able to conceive thought, not simply a reaction like a fly-eating plant (although a lower level of consciousness).

In humans and higher order animals, the mind is sustained by fluid that brings food and oxygen and thus allows it to conceive thought. Thoughts are formulated within the mind by the constant interaction of cells in its memory, whereby learned experiences, words, and feelings are remembered to piece together, hopefully, common sense and useful ideas.

I humbly would like to reiterate my former comment on this topic about Spirits, which you quoted and is provided again below:

“Yes, I deny the existence of Spirits and promote the idea that there is a consciousness that somehow has the will to create matter, which is then able to exist both inorganically and organically. That consciousness becomes viable when matter has developed in complex and fluid forms whereby thought processes are able to be formed. A stone is unable to form a thought, but a dog, cat, even ants as well as apes, flowers, bees, and humans are able to sense and react whereby at the higher levels of consciousness can interpret what to do next. Run or fight to stay alive.”

Negative or Positive Energy exists.

Dr. X, I liked your thoughts about the “Evil Eye” as bad or negative energy. In the same way, positive energy exists, whereby you can feel when somebody likes you or is in sink with your thoughts. Some call that “love.” As you know, love exists in different degrees depending on the mental and physical relationship between two people. Yes, there is some form of energy or consciousness that is transmitted that may harm or provide solace from another person. So yes, I believe in mental telepathy, whereby ones thoughts can be sent over long distances and felt by the person that has some connection mentally and physically.

I was impressed that you ended the – of + energy with a quote from me. I will repeat it with a small update to the final sentence.

“Therefore, I still believe Energy came before Matter for it is this Energy that possesses the initial birth of consciousness. That is why I feel it begins as a baby, not knowing exactly how it will create its highest form of intelligence. But this Energy did somehow learn how to create Matter for without matter the complex forms of inorganic and organic entities cannot be created. Yes, Energy and Matter co-existed eternally for an infinite period but it was Energy that precipitated the process – at least in my mind. Finally, I equate this Energy as possessing a consciousness that develops and creates its crowning purpose in its life-type existence. That is, its will to exist, which has become a part of all living matter.”

Hence, the strong desire to reproduce. It is a will inherent in Energy, which drives Consciousness in the Universe to create matter and from that platform, create organic matter that reaches a level of intelligence that is able to look back into the Universe. The crowning glory of the Universe is that it has created highly intelligent entities that are able of revering its magnificent creations of galaxies consisting of stars, pulsars, and black holes. Last but not least, the Universe will achieve its purpose when all self-thinking entities, such as humans and aliens revere its magnificence.

Artificial Intelligence

Dr. X, you posed some thought provoking questions and they deserve to be quoted below.

How about Robotics? We have already created Artificial Intelligence and tomorrow at the point of Singularity, if not careful, Artificial Intelligence can take over control from Human! Computers and Robots can take over simply because they are more logical than human and less emotional than human. So what are they? Where would they fit in your universe? Conscious? Matters and Energies? What does that make us? God? But then again. This God will be weaker than its Creation! So could our God be weaker than us? Could we be superior to our God, who created us but we surpassed him? Think about it?


There is reason to believe that Robots can exceed the intelligence of the human mind and may decide to control its creator, man. But an essential element the Robot does not have is the inherent will to reproduce, sexual reproduction that life forms are born with. The Robot will certainly become highly intelligent but will eventually wear out like any material without the capability to reproduce itself. You counter with the idea that it can manufacture another Robert to take its place. But the old Robot will have to reprogram all the information it possesses in the created or baby Robot. This will not be an easy process because ideas build upon former ideas and the baby will not be able to digest or connect the billions of data that exists in its parent Robot.

However, I could be wrong because just as we can transpose information or data from one computer to another, the Robot will very likely do the same thing with its baby Robot so that it may be successful in sustaining Robots indefinitely. Good questions Dr. X, but I do not believe we humans are dumb enough to give the Robot that much power to duplicate itself.

Universal Intelligence

Dr. X, I do not like the term Universal Intelligence, “because it covers all intelligence everywhere in the universes or at least our universe.” What is this UI? UI varies with different levels of elements, be they inorganic or organic and therefore, it is not “universal.” Yes, to say UI exists as the total existence of intelligence everywhere makes it “universal” is ok but somewhat misleading because it is not the same everywhere or universal. Yes, the Universe possesses Intelligence but at many different levels, which therefore, cannot be quantified.

Whereas, "Consciousness" exists everywhere but at different levels and like a baby, it matures as it evolves into higher life forms. Yet, down to the very atom that makes up life forms, there is a “Consciousness” that has the will to evolve; and as it gains expression in life forms, it is able to articulate thought; thought that is based upon data received by the senses of the life form it exists in. In simple terms, higher forms of life have the brain capacity to store ideas in memory and thoughts are conceived but the life form must be alive and functioning. Like my father always said, “When you’re dead, you’re dead.”

Dr. X, thank you for quoting me at the end of this UI topic for it provides a personal thought that may have some value. It is repeated below:

"Therefore, even God, if we were to believe in such an entity as UI, had to have been a baby and grew over the period of infinity to become a consciousness that pervades the universe."

I should take the opportunity to have our IPC members reflect on the article I wrote on, Does Consciousness Pervade the Universe? You provided it as an IPC post under the link,

http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

Universal Intelligence and God

Dr. X, I need to clarify my belief about God. I do not know God for like the great Egyptian priests, they believed He was incomprehensible, mysterious, and unknowable. This idea about God, to me, is different in that I believe in evolution beginning with the atom and its smallest sub particles. The various combinations of atoms have made the many elements and substances that form inorganic and organic entities, which possess a certain level of consciousness. That consciousness has the will to create higher life forms that finally, after trillions of years, are able to reach back out into the universe and try to learn how it all started. This is the crowning glory of our Universe. And this evolved consciousness in man has given it the creativity to believe it is a Spirit or God that is involved with the evolutionary process.

Quality of UI

Dr. Ahreeman, we partially agree on the term Universal intelligence. You believe in the basic law of the conservation of energy,

Matters and Energies were never created and will never destroy but they continuously change from one form to another (and to each other).


As a consequence of this law, you believe that:

Universal Intelligence has always been there and will always be there. It came from eternity and it will be until infinity.


As I have discussed above, I do not believe matter and energy always existed, at least not matter and energy as we have come to learn about. I believe that with everything, there is a beginning, which is why I do not agree that UI has always been there. Just as the atom evolved from sub-particles and has inherent energy, we have learned it exists with gravitational, electrical and magnet properties, which all began at a very low level of evolution. The galaxies, stars and plants did not exist in the beginning but were born out of the vast sea (space) of the universe that contained minute particles that somehow were able to coalesce together.

Universal Intelligence, therefore to me, did not evolve the intelligence we today experience as consciousness. It took trillions upon trillions of years to have atoms produce matter that makes up the galaxies that exist with stars and planets. Only after the stars and planets were formed did organic life forms appear and evolve to higher levels of physical being and intelligence. Therefore, I conceive UI like consciousness; in the beginning it was like a baby that finally evolved to much higher levels of matter with ever stronger gravitational, electrical and magnetic properties.

So, perhaps we agree on UI as also having a beginning for it came to exist as matter and energy evolved. But to say it has always been there in the form it exists today appears to be an error in analysis. But we agree, that UI does evolve like the matter it is part of and constantly changes.

I was honoured that you accepted my conclusion, “Dr, X, we are in close agreement except that “Spirits” are the inherent embodiment of consciousness that is able to express itself in organic life,” Your response was,
Yes indeed, you put that in wonderful words, so scientifically correct and so logical.


Dr. X, you presented a quote in which I tried to define UI and I was impressed that it was consistent with what I wrote in the last few paragraphs. It is presented again because since you consider yourself as the “Harbinger of Universal Intelligence,” it appears we are in agreement that UI somehow is a form of consciousness that may be considered as a Spirit or God (which is a spirit mankind visualizes in human form).

“The level of UI is, at least to me, a consciousness that exists at all levels of development from the smallest atom to a complex galaxy with many stars and life forms. Yes, UI and consciousness may be thought as being energies. But they exist at many different levels until consciousness reaches its highest level, the ability to think and reflect on the universe itself. This may be the crowning glory of UI or consciousness that started as a baby, only simple atoms, that after many trillions of years developed the high form of intelligent being that is able to think about who or what created it.”

The UI quote is presented above because you gave me another compliment that deserves to be set below:

I think you have just evolved, made a mental mutation, a jump and you have become a Higher Form of Intelligence! Therefore, now your contribution to the Universal Intelligence is at a higher level and a higher frequency!

I, as the representative and the “Harbinger of Universal Intelligence” named Ahreeman, thank you for your Self Evolution and Total Contribution to human consciousness advancement and Universal Intelligence progression

Amen!


Dr. X, once again you bring a smile on my face by declaring me a philosopher. You sure know how to lift my spirit with your declaration:

Philosopher G Nex, formerly known as a Mythical Being, the Saint Nicholas!

Now after removing my sword from the top of your head and declaring you (not a title) a philosopher, I also bless you in the name of Father (from Under), the Son (Ahreeman) and the Dark Holy Spirit (the Raven) connecting the two! Now that was the Dark version of Trinity! Thus, I am on the Dark Side!

I don’t laugh easily but your sense of humour is astounding!

Reflecting on your term, Universal Intelligence, I have some reservations about it. We both agree that UI is like Consciousness, which I believe pervades the universe. However, the reason I dislike the term Universal Intelligence is that intelligence connotes the ability to think and make decisions. I do not believe that UI is capable of thinking, the ability to generate thought. However, I like the term Consciousness because one may be conscious but not be able to think; just as one who is alive but unable to think due to physical injury or just totally relaxing.

Yes, as thinking individuals, our thoughts may be transmitted into space, the Universe. But that does not mean intelligence is added to the Universe. Such thoughts drift out into space without any way to be connected as intelligence for use because unlike our brains, which store conceived thought, there is no way for another intelligence to retrieve it. Ideas are made up of thoughts and unconnected thoughts into space may make no sense. Therefore, I rather refer to the evolving process in space as Consciousness that exists at different levels in all matter. Perhaps, Universal Consciousness may be more appropriate that Universal Intelligence.

Dr. X, you stated that the IPC Iran Online Library will,

In the future, after we are all gone, it will still remain on the net, even if not on the server, on the Internet Archives and it will show traces of once existed “Great Civilization” named IPC which tried to advance the human civilization more and more towards Evolution of Perfection and Knowledge.


Your marvellous IPC website may never be accessed in the Internet Archives by interested users in Persian history or know of the works of all the wonderful artists, philosophers and inventors, including yours.
I recommend that before you leave this very challenging world, that you leave your IPC associates in charge of preserving the wealth of information by having dollars endowed to preserve your website on-line for at least 50 to 100 years. There will be a need for your website to be accessible by other aspiring minds who understand and appreciate the valuable amounts of human works you have so diligently posted or hosted on IPC. Knowledge is a valuable gift and you should try to make it accessible for the next 100 years.

Back to our philosophical debate. Dr. X, after I stated, “After we die, as energy we are no longer independent-thinking energies. Only fragments of generated wave thoughts may still linger in space.” you wrote,

Yes. But still I insist that in a way, we do live another life as energy, and matter changes form and we become released energy joining all universal energy or shall we color it in a way that our intelligence becomes a part of the “Universal Intelligence."


Once dead, the energy that was generated by our body and mind no longer exists. Yes, our material body may decay but will not live on as energy to join Universal Intelligence. Just as quasars have stars that explode one another and energy is released to start the creation of other stars and planets, our own personal energy that is made up of the experiences, feelings and sensations stored in the brain no longer exists to join the UI.

Therefore, I do not glorify UI as benefitting from the energy I once possessed. However, something may be said that during our lifetime, thoughts are transmitted into the universe and yes, in that way, becomes part of UI. So, I disagree that there is an afterlife as energy and matter. Instead, there is a totally new beginning for energy and matter to create other life forms. Who knows, such energy and matter may become a rock, or an ant, a flower, tree, bird or animal. But certainly, no more Nick Ginex or Professor Ahreeman will form. We may become some kind of other alien or life form in a distant galaxy never to enjoy the intellectual discourse and friendship we have today.

Jeepers! Dr. X you made me laugh again after I read,

However, if you want to be a party pooper and destroy religious people’s hopes and dreams and 72 virgins, then be like that and see where does that take you? In depth of infidel hell, that is where it takes you, ... you irredeemable infidel!


Dr. Ahreeman, you hold on to the wonderful idea that,

surely there is life because life never ends but it changes forms. Death in itself is another form of life. Matters survive and energies survive but they change forms. I conclude that there will be life, not as this consciousness exists now but maybe higher or lower consciousness! Nothing disappears and everything survives.


Yes, I agree that matter and energy changes form but so what. If I no longer exist as Nicholas Ginex the philosopher, writer, singer and Pope, then I do not care what I become in the next million or trillion years.

After I was quoted by you with the statement, “The energy forces that began as a baby but has grown to attain its crowning achievement – life forms it could be proud of. The respect given to this Consciousness is to name it God – the Creator of all there is.” You responded by writing,

No, even though the logic was scientific but naming it God due to respect or no respect, colors it theological and religious! This is not God but this is a scientific entity of collective consciousness named Universal Intelligence. It did not create everything, it will not destroy everything but it is everything!


In the same way you refer to the scientific entity of collective consciousness as Universal Intelligence, I simply gave it a name called God. Yes, I agree with you that it is not the God humans have conceived but the energy forces that somehow possess a consciousness that have the will to create matter and life forms. For me, I prefer to give UI an honorable name called God because UI is nothing more than an idea, just as is God. To me, UI and God is the same entity because it has the ability to evolve organic and inorganic matter. Forget about the God term as used by religious people as being something that can be visualized. God, like UI, is incomprehensible, mysterious, and unknowable; at least, until scientists figure out if indeed it were sub-particles that were able to form the first atom. The first creation of UI or consciousness may be the atom for it possesses gravitational, electrical and magnetic properties.

Dr. X, after reading your long dissertation whereby you stated,

I believe in Dialectical Materialism and Philosophical Materialism and Pure Science. Science is my God. My Universal Intelligence is compatible with scientific laws and theories.

So in this manner, even though many of our common grounds brings us close philosophically, yet fundamentally your Energy Baby God Concept is a world apart than UI.

At the end of the day, I am a Materialist and even though you do not believe in Spirits, yet your Creator sounds, acts and defines as one! Still you believe in a creator but I believe in Science and nothing but Science.


I was able to laugh again to see you agree with me that UI is in fact Consciousness for that is why the element of Intelligence exists. I still believe that the entire Universe began with the formation of sub-particles that form atoms that became the building blocks of matter and all life forms. Therefore, I do NOT believe in God as our fellow humans do. I believe that there was a beginning whereby sub-particles, after trillions and trillions of years, were able to coalesce into atoms that scientifically we have concluded that all matter and life forms are made up of atoms.

Please do not get excited in thinking that I believe in some Creator God. I believe that Consciousness pervades the Universe and is able to evolve (create is a dirty word) matter that can eventually produce life forms with the heat of a star. We are both on the same wave length but I refuse to think that stars and planets existed in the beginning. I believe that all matter was formed by sub-particles that eventually evolved to fill the Universe with stars and planets that are capable to sustain life.

The problem You appear to have is you have a stigma to call UI and Consciousness - God. Alright, to make you happy, I will refrain calling UI and Consciousness God because it is a phenomenon that pervades the Universe. Therefore, I do NOT have the Creator people refer to as God.

Dr. X I felt it was necessary to repeat your last few thoughts in our debate.

Good debate and always a pleasure picking your mind. The readers love this debate (you can tell by the traffic) and one day we should publish it as an online book.

I bet with you that:

Zarathustra Spitmata’s spirit
Friedrich Nietzsche’s spirit
Bertrand Russell’s spirit
Charles Darwin’s spirit
Albert Einstein’s spirit
Gene Roddenberry’s spirit
Carl Sagan’s spirit
Stephen Hawking’s soul
Neil deGrasse Tyson’s soul


.... and the rest of the Greats’ spirits and souls are at this point of time and place looking down at us and they are with us, praising our efforts and action to conduct this philosophical and scientific debate to evolve the mental capacity and thought patterns of humanity. They are all telling us:

Amen!


Dr X, great minds think alike!! I also felt that there is so much thought that the average person is never exposed to that it would be worthwhile to publish our philosophical debate on-line. It would be nice for IPC readers to explore new avenues of thought in a book that has a table of contents.

Thank you for engaging me into the wonders of your mind.

Nicholas. A devoted Brother.
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