Dialogue of Nicholas Ginex and Ahreeman X (Philosophy)How Everything Came to Existence?
3 Parts: Micro Aspects, Macro Aspects and General AspectsAhreeman X
February 8, 2014The Ahreemanic RebuttalPart 1: Micro AspectsMaster Engineer Ginex:
Greetings my friend. It is very joyful to debate, argue and discuss various issues with you thus you own a wonderful mind and that is a rare quality. I state the truth thus stating Persian flatteries and buttering up is not in my nature.
Manager / Electrical Engineer in Aerospace Industry / Missile Defence Systems, amazing background and on top of it a philosopher too!
For someone who worked in the defence industry, you are too human and spiritual, because many experts in the field of Aerospace have problems working for the defence industry. Their logic is that they refuse to build devices which kill people.
I on the other hand have no problem with that. My logic is:
“Kill em all, let Allah sort em out!”Aerospace Industry
... The funny thing is that for some bizarre reason, I keep on meeting people in the Aerospace Industry! Two Persian ladies very close to me are in the field. One is a high security level Manager and an Aerospace Engineer who manages and coordinates a few dozen of Aerospace Engineers at a given time. She is the final person who decides if a plane flies or not! The other lady is also an Aerospace Engineer. An Activist friend is also an Aerospace Engineer. My own cousin, she was in charge of building the shuttle controls at NASA. Another friend is an author who used to be in the Aerospace field and now you a retired Engineer, not an Aerospace Engineer but an Electrical Engineer, yet involved managing in the Aerospace Industry. What are you all Aerospace Industry people doing in my life?Children
, oh children are a blessing! You spoke of Grand Children, how sweet they can be. One’s life changes with children and then again with grand children!Persian food
, oh Lord, as a culture lover, food lover and traveler you have known nothing unless you have tried Persian food, the best cuisine in the globe! I do not say this because I am Persian but I say this because I travel the globe and I have tried almost every major cuisine in the world.
Nothing and I mean nothing comes close to Persian Food! Why you ask? Because Persian Food is not just a part of the Persian Culture but Persian food is the backbone and skeleton of the Persian Culture. Persians’ favorite pastime, hobby, lifestyle and desire are to cook and eat food! I have never seen any culture so occupied with food! Some Persian food takes hours to make and some Persians spend half of their lives in the kitchen or on the dining table!
Now the question is: Have you ever tried Persian food? And have you tried it in the right place?
I doubt if you have never did, because you live in Orange County which is loaded with Persians and famous Persian Restaurants such as “Caspian”.
Let’s put it this way:“World Cuisine without the Persian Cuisine is like a Runner without 2 legs!”
We have invented Kabobs and have a dozen varieties of them.
We invented cooking Basmati Rice to perfection (boil and then bake) to perfection (not like Uncle Ben’s Smooshed Rice). The only people in the world who cook Basmati Rice in a way that you can see every single piece separately, long and tender rather than a pile of stuck together smooshed rice are Persians and Swiss. Even the Swiss copied us and learned it from us!
Persians are obsessed people with food and anyone who ever ate Persian food is perfectly aware of that!Fine Persian Restaurants
have more American customers than Persians!Fine Persian Restaurants
have more Japanese, Chinese, Indian and Paki clients than Persians! And all of these people are Rice making people! Why? Because in comparison to Persians, these people have no clue on how to make rice!Fine Persian Restaurants
have more Arab, Turkish, Jew and Greek clients than Persians! And these people are Kabob makers of the world! Why? Because in comparison to Persians, these people have no clue on how to make Kabobs!
Persian Kabobs, Rice and Stews gave a new meaning, a new taste and a new definition not only to the Middle Eastern food but to the global cuisine!
Don’t let me get started on food (like you mentioned) cause we will be talking about it for months!
Now you are making me hungry! Kabob Time!
“Yes, as a first time using your website, I was not aware of use of the “Quote” button. Sorry that you almost got blinded by the light of Amen in trying to follow my responses to your comments.”
“Your subsection, “BB Code Guide” was very instructive. However, it would be easier if I could simply paste a Word created document, fully annotated with bold and color type directly into a Response Reply. Most writers prefer to create a document on MicroSoft Word and paste it into a Response Reply.”
We all use MS Word and then copy paste to the forum; however, you need to either:
a) Highlight and color my text and your text in different colors (in word or in forum) and/or font (bold)
b) Highlight and click on quote function on my text
This would make our texts to be different color or design, so it is easy to follow and read the debate or else it will all be the same color, font and design, hard to distinguish (like yours).
Basically I do not care. I can follow your writing with or without quotes or different colors but others may have issues to follow.
“I do like the use of “Amen” at the end of your writing. It shows you have not completely discarded the significance of this Egyptian God.”
To me, using the term “Amen” is more theatrical, gesture and style. I really enjoy finishing my hardcore articles with “Amen”! Many criticise me as an atheist and as a scientific person, why using this term?!
But I’m not a militant atheist. I use Amen; I celebrate many holidays including Christmas and Nowruz (Persian New Year) but not Islamic ones! I even have Christmas spirit during holidays!
The funny thing is that when people tell me “Happy Holidays”, on purpose, I correct them and return the gesture by saying “Merry Christmas”, like a hardcore Christian! I do not do it because I am religious but I am doing it to piss off the liberals and their political correctness.
As much as I cannot stand Jesus Freaks, yet I cannot stand Liberals, ten times more!
“You were not born a rebel but through circumstances in life you were tailored to be a rebel.”
Do not be so sure because you have not been in the womb with me, were you? Don’t tell me we are brothers from the same mother?! Are you my long lost American brother who was kidnapped from Iran and got sold to an American family?
In the “Wild One
”, the Chick asked Marlon Brando: Chick:
What are you rebelling against?Brando:
What do you got?
Well that is me! Remember that one? Marlon Brando was and is the symbol of Rebellion for us the Leather Jacket wearing, biking, rebel rousing, anti authority, anti establishment, anti social norms rebels!
Honestly, since I remember, I have been a rebel! I have been a rebel in elementary school against the principle, in the junior high against Imperial Despotism of Shah, in high school against Muslims, in American colleges and universities against liberal faculties’ bureaucracy and hypocrisy, in job market against bosses and corporate crap, in politics against big government, in administration against paper pushers, in community against Superficial and Shallow celebrity loving public, in society against norms, in life against norms, traditions and taboos and on and on ….
Since I opened my eyes, I rebelled starting against my own dynasty and social class!
Maybe it is environment (I am 4th generation of Atheists), maybe it is society (growing up in an Islamic nation), maybe it is love of freedom (rebel rousing and biking in America) and maybe I just have a beef with whatever the majority believes and a beef with authority figures!
“Where I differ with your belief, is that I do not subscribe to the existence of Spirits along with Energy and Matter. Spirits are a human concept that connotes mysterious entities similar to gods used to explain an intelligence that created an evolving system or all there is.”
I also say: Matters and Energies created the Spirits.
Mind is spirit.
Brain is matter.Mind without Brain cannot exist but brain without Mind can exist
(deep sleep and nor dreaming).
“I agree that the system was never created but evolved beginning with the smallest particles partially discovered in the study of quantum mechanics.”
2 above statements of yours do contradict each other, no?
“I believe there was a beginning from possibly nothing. Energy and Matter did not always exist and merely change form. I believe there is an intelligence that forms with the development of Energy and Matter and it has successfully been able to form forces, such as electromagnetic waves and gravity that is inherent within the design of the atom.”
So which is it?System was never created
or there was a beginning?
“At our present stage of the universe, I have come to believe that we now have a self-sustaining universe, which did not begin with the “Big Bang.” Scientists have observed that there are quasars, pulsars, and black holes. Explosions from these phenomenons expel gases, matter, and energy back out into the universe whereby massive clouds become the bed for the birth of new stars. Therefore, it is short-sighted to believe that it all started from a massive big ball to cause the big bang.”
You will be amazed that as an Evolutionist and a Materialist, I also do not believe in the Big Bang but I believe in the Snake Shape Graph theory:
Matters and Energies are eternal, been there and will be there forever, like a snake with no beginning and no end which the loops of his body are never a full circle and do not come to close, yet they come very near to be closed but then again they go up and down and in loops forever; therefore, no beginning and ending!
“I do not believe scientists believe in Spirits and Spirituality. At least, I surely don’t. The idea of a spirit is a man-made concept similar to the idea of a soul. Religious leaders have developed the concept of a soul to extend their belief in immortality or an infinite future with their god after death. Variations of the soul concept are that it can return into another life form based upon the previous life being spent doing greater works than bad acts.”
Bravo you sound more rational then I and more scientific than I.
But what is the quality of “Mind”? Isn’t Mind, spirit?Spirits exists but Matters and Energies have created the Spirits. Without Matters and Energies, Spirits cannot exist!
“I do believe that the mind can generate thought waves that can be intercepted by others who have the same or similar nature. As long as the mind functions, all things are possible for it has the ability to construct ideas and theories that may be realized. But once it stops functioning, like all other matter, it becomes part of the universe to be transformed into other energy and matter. Sorry, but as my father would say, when your dead your dead.”
Your father sounds like a wise man, that’s why you are wise.
“Ahreeman, regarding your thoughts “On My Spirituality,” I believe you conceive that your spirit consists of what you have “learned and earned through humanity, martial arts teachings, universal thinking, rational pondering and logically configuring.” However, these are human learnings that have nothing to do with the Spirit. You have groomed yourself with worthwhile interests in humanity, sciences, and logical thinking. This forms an intelligent human being without any need of Spirit. It is your mind that is precious and your heart that makes your body act – not your spirit, which is simply a concept, a construct of the mind that people have been taught by religious leaders to believe is another entity.”
You sound philosophically more Materialist than I.
As I stated: <Science has everything to do with morality!
Science has everything to do with Logic.
Logic dictates what is logically Moral.
Rationally Moral thinking and behaviour establishes Morality codes.
In formula: Science => Logic => Morality
Human sense and logic makes us to build a moral code of ethics and morality.
Morality is more scientific and logic than having anything to do with God and Religion.
Moral due to Logic not Religion! >
On this you wrote:
“Ahreeman, I do equate science with facts and logic built upon facts. However, science does not lead to moral behavior. Moral behavior never relied on science and logic to be accepted by a community of people. True, moral behavior has been linked to a way to be accepted by a higher entity called god. But also, many different communities that had no formal religion had developed modes of conduct so that they could live together in harmony. But it had nothing to do with science or even logic. It was simply a way to exist and live together in peace.”
But isn’t rationality taught by science? And Rationality dictates to us to be moral? Rationality, Logic and Science go together.
“You make a good point that Muslims have a moral code but their code encourages bigotry, hatred, violence, and the killing of innocent people who do not believe in their god Allah. Muslims use the logic that they have the only true religion and therefore want to subjugate all other people with their religion. But this is logic gone astray. What is logical to one people is illogical to another. Logic is built upon premises and many times the premises are faulty. Logic is not a science. It is the way people have been brought up to conceive the world. It is science that eliminates faulty logic by dealing with known and repeatable facts.”
I totally disagree. The only logic is the scientific logic; and religious and other so-called logics are not logics but they are illogic and “Belief Systems
” taught by society.
“What is moral in one community may not be acceptable in another and this becomes apparent when we contrast one religion with another. Moral codes vary by how extreme one community is brought up over another. Therefore I do not believe it is science and logic that defines morality. It is the experience of “hard knocks” in the real world that communities learn to coexist with one another. Their experience leads to the development of a moral code acceptable to all and has nothing to do with science or logic. Yes, common sense plays a big part. But here too, few people are able to use common sense as they go through life making one mistake after another. Education is key to teach ethics, integrity, justice and truth. These are not scientific facts but behavior patterns to lead wholesome productive lives.”
Very interesting analysis, I like the way your mind works.Part 2: Macro Aspects
“It cannot be over stressed that the people of Mitanni had received great exposure of Egyptian traditions and religious thought.”
Actually this was one way and an important way that Egyptian philosophy influenced the evolution of Faravahar and affected the Zoroastrian thought patterns. Great cultures are interlinked and affect one another. Later on when Persians captured and ruled Egypt for centuries (Achaemenian onward), Persians affected the Egyptian culture. Unfortunately later on Islam and Arabo-Muslims practically destroyed Egypt and turned it to an Arab country and they almost done the same to Persia and if it wasn’t because of Yaqub Leis Saffarid, Iran would also have been an Arab nation! Same goes for Rome but in Italy’s case, it was the lack of strong navy by the Arabs (to cross to Europe by mass) who saved Rome.
Yes Jews are not the chosen people
“This Egyptian belief strongly influenced Moses, which culminated in the creation of the first five books, referred to as the Torah, written in 950 BCE.”
, but Moses based his religion on the Egyptian philosophy. Judaism, Ten Commandment and Yahweh were not original and exclusive to the Jews. Tell that your local Jew Rabbi!
< “An Atheist believes in Science. An Atheist is not dogmatic. An atheist believes whatever the science can prove up to this point. If tomorrow the science proves there is a God, then the Atheist believes in God (unlikely)!” >
“Ahreeman, you wrote that,”
You got a point. Maybe I do and it is due to the fact that mostly the atheists whom I have known were also scientists or scientific people.< "How can you be an Evolutionist but not an Atheist?" >
“An atheist may or may not believe in science and in fact have very little knowledge of science. You are attributing too much to the intelligence of an atheist.”
“So I am an evolutionist who does not reject my conception of god, which is a force that is unknown, mysterious, and incomprehensible. That force has nothing to do with the creationist idea that it was God that created all there is and has created man in His image. This is illogical thinking.
But isn’t this Agnosticism which you also criticise?
“My god consists of the forces contending in the universe to express itself by evolving inorganic and organic matter.”
Who created your God? Where did he come from? Isn’t it all comes down to:
Everything in existence (as far as we know Matters and Energies) has always been there and no one created them?
“My questions are: “Is there a purpose to evolve (for the creation of) intelligent life?”
Evolution towards betterment and Perfection. Creatures evolve to better adapt to their environment (at the present time) Creatures progress to fit better and survive.
On the other hand, in human case, it seems like the missing link could have been the Aliens who done a genetical engineering on primates (Neanderthals) mixed with their DNA and created us! Either that or we have not discovered the Missing Link yet (aside Ahmadinejad)!
“Does the universe have a goal to evolve intelligent life so that such life may look back into the universe and appreciate its forces?”
You are so sentimental but in reality this is simple Evolution and it is scientifically logical.
“Does the universe have a vanity, like living humans, to be respected and understood for its crowning ability to evolve living life forms that also possesses intelligence?”
No because the Universe consists of you and I. No creator is involved; therefore, it is not vain.
“Does that intelligence pervade the universe?”
Yes and it is the combine intelligence of you, I and All. No Supreme Creator, Higher Being, Destined Plan and Mystery here!
“Ahreeman, regarding if I am an atheist, agnostic, or a believer in evolution, It is the latter of the three. I believe in the love of life that our universe has endowed to us. I call it humanity, because I revere all the life forms that our intelligent universe has evolved. We are part of the system that has been created by our universe. Some people call this intelligence God. But I am not able to know this God except by the images and attributes others teach me. And who is to say their philosophical view of God is correct? By simply enjoying the gifts of life that now exist is my humanistic point of view.”
Thank you for clarifications.
Exact documentation is only possible via time travel and you will be my first mate when I complete my machine!
“You need to provide evidence that Zoroaster believed in Universal Intelligence and had no appreciation for Good versus Evil, Saints and Spirits. He did believe in Ahura Mazda, a god that represented his views about the universe. Universal Intelligence is an idea that, I believe, evolved after Zoroaster for the people of his time had no idea of the expanse of the universe and how it evolved. Please cite documentation that clearly presents Zoroaster’s conception or belief in a Universal Intelligence.”
After various Barbarian destruction of all Persian books by Alexander and Greco-Macedonians, Muhammadan Arabo-Muslims and etc. you want evidence?
Read between the lines of Avesta and Gatha. I am sure you can distinguish between logical text and fabrications of Mobeds.< "You can’t believe in Evolution and then talk about Holy Spirit!" >
"Ahreeman, you clarified that Holy Spirit or Spirit, if an entity, evolved matter and energy then I am a creationist. I agree there needs to be clarification in that I meant creation that involves the evolution of matter from the smallest of particles to atoms and then inorganic and organic matter. I should not use the idea of Spirit that initiated the evolutionary process because the existence of a Spirit implies a God. Actually, I believe it is electromagnetic and gravitational forces that are associated with energy that initiated the evolutionary process. You are right in that I should not use the term Holy Spirit. I was poetically inclined to identify the unknowable forces that appear to possess a universal intelligence as a “Holy Spirit that pervades the universe.” However, be assured, I do not know this Spirit as being God. God is a man-made concept.”
Thanks for clarification. I love your theory of “electromagnetic and gravitational forces”. It clearly shows the Electrical Engineer in you!< "Do you believe Spirits created the matters and energies?" >
“Ahreeman, as I wrote above, I do not believe in Spirits as it implies an intelligence that has the creative abilities to evolve matter and/or energy. I believe intelligence is like that of a baby. Universal intelligence evolved as matter evolved and found a way to sustain its life. To conceptualize it was Spirits is like conceptualizing God as the initiator of the universe.”
Thanks for clarification again. Now it all makes sense. It was a misunderstanding caused by your misuse of words.
It is all your fault Saint Nicholas
! Now I comprehend what you truly mean and where you truly come from.
“Ahreeman, I confess that I am an Evolutionist. I do not subscribe to the hypothetical belief that spirits always existed along with energy and matter. I do believe in an intelligence, which I defined as the Holy Spirit. However, it is not the spirit of God but is the mysterious, unknowable, and incomprehensible force(s) that I assign a name to and for no other good name, I call this Holy Spirit God.”
That’s another misusing the terms. Use “Universal Intelligence
” or the “Evolving Force
” (how you like the second one?)
“There appears to be reluctance to call the universal intelligence God. I agree and understand this reluctance because people associate the concept of God with what they have been taught by their religious leaders. I characterize the unknowable force(s) as an intelligence I refer to as the Holy Spirit that pervades the universe. This unknowable force is my only concept of God.”
You are misusing the terms again!
Pervades: To spread throughout all parts of (Universe) especially subtly and gradually.
“However, please understand that I use the word “Holy” as reverence for this universal intelligence and envision it as the Holy Spirit that pervades the universe. This is my own hypothetical belief and since I have nothing to replace this belief, it is the best my mind can accept for now.”
I like that definition but change the term from Holy Spirit to the Evolving Force
.< Scientific Theory and Law >
“Therefore, I do not subscribe to the idea that matter always existed.”
Then I am talking about the Scientific Fact
and you are talking about Science Fiction
!< "So you defy Laws of Physics? Conservation Law of Matters and Energies?Matters and Energies have never been created, will never be destroyed, yet they always change forms to one another.” >
“Ahreeman, your belief in the Laws of Physics, whereby matter and energy have never been created but always existed whereby they can change forms is a limited view of the beginning of the universe.”
Dear Saint Nicholas:
Are you calling me narrow-minded because I believe in Scientific Facts and Laws (So far proven)?
Therefore, you by not believing in it, are not really being creative and imaginative but that makes you “Scientifically Challenged
” (I am trying so hard to be politically correct)!
“I always thought you could not get something from nothing.”
Then you are an Evolutionist.
“To think matter and energy always existed is just a belief.”
No, it is called a Scientific Law
(so far proven).
“I believe matter and energy are interrelated but evolved from nothing”
You were more logical then than now! Your statement is not a Scientific Fact but a Quantum Mechanics Theory.
“and this is becoming a prevalent theory being investigated in the science of quantum mechanics. If you are an evolutionist, you must perceive that there must have been a beginning in the formation of all matter and energy. To say matter and energy always existed is limiting your thirst for knowledge to understand the beginning of the universe.”
No, this is a fallacy and flawed logic, more like illogic.
Evolution means how matters and energies evolve to more complex forms.
Evolution does not mean that matters and energies came from nothing and some force created them! That belief is called Creationism and that is why I call you a closet Creationist
“You see, I am a true evolutionist. Understand that certain laws of physics that hold in our earthly world are not the same in the universe.”
Now you are talking Science Fiction.
“Einstein illustrated with the theory of relativity that time is relative and is not constant in all cases.”
Einstein’s Theory of Relativity has nothing to do with it!Conservation Law, Relativity and Evolution were 3 theories who put the final nail in the coffin creationism.
Are you trying to give a scientific paint job and facade to the same old theory of Creation?
But then again, you could be correct, but Gods could be Aliens who created us; however, still matters and energies have always existed! < “Buddy, your philosophical view of the universe is similar to a Creationist’s View. You try hard not to believe so, and you try hard to polish your beliefs in a manner that it appears scientific;
however, deep inside, you view, sound, argue, example and declare as a Creationist.” >
“Ahreeman, you do not like the word create, created, or creationist. Perhaps, you would rather have had me rephrase the sentence above as, “It is the higher life forms that are the crown achievement of this Energy whereby they reach back out to the universe to understand the Energy, a force, that caused the development of inorganic matter and organic life forms.”
But words give definitions. Wrong words can change the nature of your intention and prevail a different meaning than what you originally intended to show!
“Notice that I deleted reference to the phrase, “that created all there is.” I did not mean to use the word “created” in a god but evolutionary sense.”
Words can be used as playing with words. Words also can change the total meaning of what our true intentions are! It is not a matter of I like the term “Creation” or not, but it is the matter of what do you really mean?
< “I cannot set aside the science and logic and hang on to Unknown hypothesis, based on no rational system, when it suits me! This is not the scientific way!” >
“Ahreeman, you wrote:
“I have told you that I do not know if God exists”
Isn’t that Agnosticism?
“The difference between your belief system and mine is that you believe matter and energy always existed. “
Which is called a Scientific Fact.
“As for me, I believe there was a beginning for the evolutionary process that finally evolved a universe of galaxies, stars, and planets.”
Which is called at worst “Creation
” and at best “a Theory
“Quantum mechanics is trying to understand the phenomenon of the generation of something from nothing.”
You cannot create something from nothing! Unless you believe in Holy Books which are stories made for adults!
No, it is a Scientific Fact and as an Electrical Engineer and a High Level Scientist in Aerospace Industry you are perfectly aware of it! Please do not play with words. Maybe your wild imagination and the child in you wants to believe that this is all an “Unproven Belief” and there is more to this story and one day we will find the mystery and also Santa Clause will come down to Earth with his sleigh, but the reality and fact of the matter has nothing to do with “Imagination”. It is good to imagine and have a great imagination because without imagination, nothing new will be coming to existence and creativity will die; however, you cannot brand “Scientific Facts” as “Unproven Beliefs” and try to put a paint job on a “Theory” via the help of a so far “Failed Quantum mechanics attempt and experiment” and refer to it as Scientific Fact! C’mon Master Engineer, we are scientists here. I have a wild imagination too, but unlike you, I do not allow my Science Fiction gets mixed with my Science Facts!
“To say the universe always existed with its totality of matter and energy is an unproven belief.”
“Just as the Big Bang is a belief. To believe the big bang exploded and caused the development of all the galaxies and stars in the universe is nonsense.”
Excuse me but Big Bang is a theory
, yet “Conservation Law of Matters and Energies” is a Law of Physics
and Science. There is a difference, you know?
As I stated, I do not believe in Big Bang but I do believe in Laws of Science.Part 3: General AspectsHow Everything Came to Existence?
“You do not seem to mind the use of Spirits, Energy and Matter coexisting.”
But right away I stated that: Matters created Spirits.
“However, the roots of the belief in one-universal god originated in Egypt and a history of its development has been documented in my books, Future of God Amen and Amen.”
I am pretty much in agreement with you.
< * Mitra was the daughter of the virgin Goddess Anahita.
“You mentioned such similarities as:”
* Jesus was the son of the virgin mother Mary!
* Mitra was born on December 25th.
* Jesus was born on December 25th.
* Mitraists were having bread and wine at Mitraist Temples
* Christians are having bread and wine at communions in churches! >
My friend, these are not similarities but they are right off the bat stolen and forged concepts of Mithraism by Christianity!
This is damaging to the core of Christianity to the point that many scholars even question the very existence of Jesus as a man and they claim Jesus did not even exist! The whole Christianity is nothing but a story.
I on the other hand, believe that Jesus existed and he was a revolutionary and ahead of his time, but Christian Saints have added much more to his story than what it really was!I believe Christianity copy pasted from Mithraism the same as Judaism copy pasted from Egyptian Ancient Philosophy and Amun.
“Ahreeman, you indicated, “Does direct copy/pasting of the Persian Philosophy of Mithraism sounds familiar?” Yes, but to what extent does Persian Philosophy copy the existing beliefs that originated out of Egypt?”
Egyptian Ancient Philosophy and Amun is about the unified God as a Monotheistic God.
Original Zoroastrianism is about Duality (2 Gods or 2 Sides of the Same God Ahura Mazda and Ahreeman), also Zoroastrianism believed and respected many Gods who came before Ahura (Ancient Persian Gods) and that is Polytheistic in its nature. Way different and more complexed than Egyptian belief.
However, it is obvious that the Egyptian Philosophy has affected the not just Zoroastrianism but Persian Philosophy, Religion and Symbols such as Faravahar. No doubt.This is way different than copy pasting and flat stealing someone else’s idea such as Christianity got caught and Judaism got caught doing!
“So let us not fall into the trap that any one people were the sole inventor of religious beliefs or the philosophy of Universal Intelligence that became accepted at some period of time.”
Yes Saint Nicholas, our dearly Father Christmas, we shall do! This is what I love about you! The Peacemaker, the politically correct humanist, the Heavenly Father in you!
“It is nice to be a strong proponent of your race, culture, and heritage, but do not take on the erroneous belief that your religion is the best or true religion. This is an arrogant view of all religions, which has caused bigotry, hatred, violence, and the killing of innocent people who have their own religious beliefs.”
Yes our Heavenly Father Christmas, forgive us thus we art not as wise as thee and we are not as generous and brotherly loving as thee. Forgive us thus we have sinned!
However, I deal with Facts and not “Brotherly Love Gospels”! Stealing is Stealing and Fairy Tales are Fairy Tales in my Scientific Logical World! It may sound Racist but hey, that’s the price us scientists pay for believing in Facts.
And if you think that is Racist, then get a load O this if you can:Social Darwinism and Science of Raciology Philosophy (3 Chapters)http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm
Dear Nicholas, emotions, brotherly love, humanity and political correctness has no room in my scientific world and surely liberalism and revisionist liberal ideas has zero space in scientific factual world!
< “In other words you are stating that humanity is too primitive not to believe in God; therefore, we must hand them some type of God to believe in, keep civilized, be moral and to be functional. Without a God, their little lives will shatter and they seize to function as productive beings. Humanity will be like lost little children without their belief in a God or a myth.” >
“Ahreeman, I agree with your statement,”
Are you sure you are not a Futurist?
“However, from a practical approach, the belief in God will exist no matter how much logic is presented. So I attempt to challenge the R&R (religious and ruling) authorities to the point of embarrassment of their dogma so that they will understand that they are at the root of much discontent around the world. The R&Rs must revise their scriptures or they will eventually stagnate and die because people like you and me will continue to exist and will grow in numbers to the point that they have no alternative but to update their scriptures.”
You sound pretty Futuristic to me? What do you think of Futurism?
You do know that I am somewhat of a Futurist. In fact all scientists are!
< “I concentrate more on evolving the people, educating the people and informing them, so they can dump all superstition, religions and Gods in the dumpster of history!” >
“Your approach is,”
“(I know you love that metaphor)!”
I do I do ....
“Think about it. The above paragraph is where I have evolved in my belief in the unknown, mysterious, and incomprehensible force we refer to as Universal Intelligence or God. The thing is that people have got to be honest with themselves and not make up God into some image, a construct of the mind, but to realize this force is the progenitor of the universe that evolved all its inorganic and living life forms. Therefore my conception of God is in line with the evolutionary process but I am not afraid to define God as a Universal Intelligence that pervades the universe.”
Yes, you are trying to be the peace maker between the Scientific Circa and the Religious Circa. At the same time you are trying to evolve human being. Who’s to say you do not get better results than I?!
“It is all based upon the attributes the Egyptians originally emulated and worshipped, righteousness, truth and justice.”
But righteousness may be interpreted as Pride by some circa and Pride is no good in Christianity!
< “We are part of a Greater System. This is how Universe works. No mystery, No Higher Power, No Plans, No Destiny, No Gods. The system within itself is intelligent and that is why we refer to it as the “Universal Intelligence”. >
“Ahreeman, you wrote,”
“As human beings have done throughout the ages, they think and such thinking evolves ideas and philosophical views about their existence and their lives. To believe there is no higher power, no plans, no destiny but still refer to this as Universal Intelligence appears to show little regard for this force.”
Let’s Clarify this issue:
” is a collective intelligence force made up of all intelligence around the universe and all interactive forces between energies and matters. This is a real force and a reality. This entity is not holy; therefore, it does not require respect and it is not requirement to respect it.
Universal Intelligence is not a higher power but it is a collective universal intelligence which includes yours and my intelligence. Every element in the universe is a part of it. No higher power here. No lower power here.
But if you are talking about the creation of man and aliens (Gods) being involved, then the Aliens were higher intellects than man; therefore, they were more on the top of food chain than man and you may call them the higher powers than man.
“It is a wonderful and marvelous revelation to know that a Universal Intelligence has as its purpose the evolution of living life forms that can think, reach out, and learn to appreciate the unknown force we call Universal Intelligence. When I look at a butterfly, a flower, and the many creatures that surround us, I cannot believe that the Universal Intelligence has no purpose in evolving the highest form of life that can look up and appreciate its wonders. One cannot help feel that this Universal Intelligence evolved life for some purpose. This is why mankind will always believe in God even though that god we call Universal Intelligence cannot be seen or it existence comprehended.”
There is no purpose in a sense that there exists a destined purpose. Simply because the Universal Intelligence is not an entity the same as a God who created all for a purpose.
Let’s hypothetically call them:Greater System:
Whole UniverseSmaller System:
Experiment Earth (Alien made Man)
Universal Intelligence is you and I and All. The purpose is Evolution to evolve more complex for the betterment. Evolution is the whole purpose. Everything evolves. But the whole system is not designed for a specific purpose and a destiny. The “Greater System” has no specific purpose because it is not a God. But the purpose for the “Smaller System” is to see how far man can evolve as a lab rat made by Alien DNA + Primate. Even in this case, Evolution is the purpose.
There is no Ulter motive or Alter motive. No destiny and no plan. No mystery and no higher power.
This is just the way the things are in this universe. And imagine this is only one universe and there are other universes for eternity ..... No beginning and no end.The problem with you is that you are still looking for a creator, a purpose, a destiny and a mystery!
This is a Creationist way of thinking (subconsciously). The mystery is right here on Earth and it is called you and I. The mystery is Evolution of All. The purpose is to Evolve cause without Evolution, everything stagnates and life seizes to exist (Survival of the Fittest). This is why Religion has seized to evolve, stagnates, dying and rotten to the core.
“As far as aliens are concerned, I do not believe aliens care to genetically engineer apes into humans. The nearest star is 43 light years away and to find a planet that has the conditions to evolve intelligent life forms is a near impossibility. We are now talking about hundreds of light years for an alien to travel in a spaceship. To conceive a spaceship able to withstand millions upon millions of miles becomes inconceivable, but all things are possible.”
Exactly, all things are possible. Have you heard of the Wormholes, star gates, time travel, warp speed and many other ways of universal traffic? This distance maybe a lot for us but for them, it’s from Philadelphia to New York or better from point a to point b with a distance of few minutes!
So have you watched and are you watching the “Ancient Aliens
” Series on the History Channel or not? What do you think of the series? I know that you are aware of the Erich Von Daniken
and Chariots of Gods
, so what do you think of it?< God that has a purpose?
God that wants to evolve us?
So we can be the best that we can be?
So we can be good servants to our Supreme Master? >
“I again state that nobody knows if God exists.”
I do! God exists and I, the Man have created him.
Without me the Man, he does not exist. Matters gave birth to Spirits.
“The best we can agree on is that there is a Universal Intelligence.”
This is where the misunderstanding is.Your Universal Intelligence
is a Creative Force, a God-like Force.My Universal Intelligence
is an “Evolving Force”. It evolves within itself and all entities which consist it and construct it are evolving; therefore, it evolves. This Universal Intelligence is dynamic and progressive because we make it that way and not vice versa. This force does not create us but we create it.
You are looking at this force as a creative force
but I look at it as a created force
.Nicholas, it seems like you are in dire straight of looking for the Creator?!
Stop looking, you have met him and his name is Ahreeman X. I confess, I am the Creator! Mystery is over; now let’s get back to the discussion!
“to say this UI or God is a supreme master that wants us to be good servants is a foolish idea.”
That is what holy books say!
“The UI I speak of has no interest in heaven or hell or life forms living eternally. This is a manmade concept and a foolish one at that. However, it was the start of our spiritual growth to understand the unknowable force we call UI or God.”
I agree with you in this manner that religions if nothing, at least registered some concepts of morality in human brains and without them, the public would have still commit incest, polygamy and murder (well Muslims still do)!
“Still, I appreciate your perspective that the universe is alive with all its matter and energy for it is the universe, or Universal Intelligence that is capable of evolving (creating) living life forms.”
Definition of “Life
” is very tricky and complex. How can Earth not be alive while it contains plants and animals which are alive? How can Earth have oxygen, CO2, water and fertile soil which are requirements for life and not be alive? Isn’t Earth a living planet? Isn’t Sun a living star? Long ago they thought Starfish is a plant but then they found out it is an animal! Today’s Rock maybe tomorrow’s life!
Hussein Obama is a Kenyan Marxist Islamist, nothing more and nothing less. He is not my president. He may be yours but not mine. As a Tea Party Conservative I have fought him and shall fight him every inch of the way through his second term until freeing America from his blend of Socialism with a dash of Islamism! The vision he has for America is to wear Maoist Caps while attending Mosques and this is far from my vision of America. Obama cherishes Euro-Pee-On Socialism and Islam Religion of Peace. I cherish Constitution of United States of America, the most unique democratic gift to the mankind and not just America.
“this policy is mandated by President Obama”
“You showed a photo of Obama as a young man being taught Islamic instruction. How authentic is that photo? If it is real, some text should be written about that photo on your website.”
This is a huge website and I do not exactly know what page are you talking about and if it was humor or real but I tell you this much that Obama in his youth has studied in Indonesian Madrasah
(Muslim Religious School), so go figure ...“Give me a child for the first 6 years of his life and I will hand you a Nazi!”(Adolf Hitler)
< “It is essential for me to live to complete my mission. This mission will be completed with or without me, but let’s be frank. Without me, the road will be rocky, the weather will be hazy and it will take twice the time for this mission to be completed! With me alive, this mission will take sooner to be completed, it will be completed properly and it will be completed smoothly.
“Ahreeman, you have clearly indicated your mission by writing,”
Above statement is not arrogance but it is fact. What I do, makes a huge difference in changing the minds of the future generation. I can change a future Islamist Fundamentalist to a Free Thinker.” >
< “Are the odds of a future progressive and “globally accepted” desired Iran as a regional and a continental power to coexist with the globe rather than being the central heart of the global Islamist Fundamentalist Movement, better or worse?”
“The answer to your question will “
“The answer it that a globally accepted and desired Iran is definitely better than it being the heart of an Islamist Fundamentalist Movement. And yes, with IPC operating with the energy of Dr. Ahreeman X is a great asset for the Iranian people who desire their Persian culture to survive.”
Thank you for your input.
“You are a very realistic person by writing the following advice for me when I wrote, “
“Perhaps, someday science, moral behavior, and a spiritual belief in God can be combined to improve our social outlook and ethical behavior.”
< “Yes brother, Jesus loves you but Smith and Wesson will protect you!” >
< “Here you go with God and Scripture again!
“I had to laugh when you responded to my writing,”
Pope Nicholas Ginex?” >Nicholas, if you ever get elected in Vatican, you will be the first Christian Pope and Saint who will also be a Scientific Evolutionist!
< “But you are absolutely correct. These debates will attract a huge number of curious people, Hungry people for knowledge, intellectuals, scholars and most important, the youth to read them and question everything that they have been taught at school so far! Debate and Argumentation is good and productive. Everyone learns something from it.
“Ahreeman, I am glad you ended your dissertation with the following thoughts that applauds debate and that we learn from each other. I am honored to receive a compliment from a man who has my greatest respect for his mission and objectives.”
Nicholas, you are far from dogmatic and in fact you are very open minded and this makes you a productive scholar.
More power to you and All Free Thinkers
“Many are schooled, yet only a few are truly educated.”
Amen Brother!” >
It is true brother.
“In the future, perhaps my views about God being a Universal Intelligence, not a master of His creations, will allow science and our spiritual views to be compatible for the final goal, which is understanding of ourselves and our world.”
Maybe so.Dear Brother from Another
(Mother, not Alien Lifeform),What is Life?
What is the meaning of Life?
What is the purpose of Life?Life is to live it up and live it in the manner that after your death, you have left the world for better and you have done something to testify to that! If not so, your life has been a waste.
This is why I cannot comprehend the Ultra Wealthy people who just live life like animals! They eat, they sleep and they Shiite! They surround themselves with not needed luxuries to extreme! This is not Life, but this is Bull Shiite! When these people die, no one will ever remember them because they have done nothing for the humanity or bettering this world.
Life is to give something back to the society. Life is to leave the world as a better world as it was.
Let me tell you something:
If you or I, manage to change one mind, just one mind towards evolving, progressing and bettering himself, then we have at least made a dent in this world for betterment and towards Evolution. I am sure you and I are surely doing better than changing only one mind! So we got it made!
We got it made not in Heaven but in the Human Historical Judgement.
I am in the Clear. I am in peace with myself. I am more than satisfied with what I have done in my life. No regrets, no remorse, I done it My Way (Sinatra)!
Are you in the Clear? Are you in Peace with yourself?
That is all that matters. Everything else is on the side.
I cannot believe that very wealthy and powerful people in this world, pile up money on top of money, live a selfish life only for personal enjoyment, not caring about humanity, world, even their own legacy! Then they die, turn to dust and no one cares and no one will ever give a flying fandango about them!
How can these people sleep at night?
How can one sleep at night when he knows that he could have been a factor but denied his countrymen, his fellow humans and his world of what he could have done, what he could have donated, what he could have affect and what change he could have caused?!
These people are called Sheeple (Sheep People
). No matter how wealthy they are or how poor they are, basically their lives means nothing and their legacy is Bull Shiite. If they are poor, they could have at least take a step in enlightening themselves so they could be a more productive member of the society!
If they are rich, then they could have at least donated a few dollars of their wealth for betterment of the world. They could have at least made a dent.
Persian community is full of them.
For instance, the woman takes a personal leisure trip and a pleasure cruise to outer space but she has never spent a dime towards changing the lives of her fellow Persians, a dime towards Revolution, a dime towards over throwing IRI and Islam in Iran (Anousheh Ansari
)! And the ignorant public cheers for her as a celebrity!
Son of Shah (Reza Pahlavi II
) the same Bull Shiite! 34 plus years of exile, making a career as a “Career Exilist” building a fat belly rather than building the future of Iran! And the ignorant public cheers for him because he is Son of Shah! So what?
The list goes on and on ... the ignorant public with empty lives, cheers for celebrities, wealthy, Imperial Monarchs and other parasites. The public does that because they can never like them and by doing so, they fill the void in their personal lives! The public cheers for them and this make these people to feel good about themselves and adds to their arrogance!
But what is the reality?
The ignorant public has a moment of forgetting about their own empty lives.
The arrogant celebrities are having a moment of climax escaping from their comfortable but meaningless lives.
The show goes on and on and on at the cost of decades of misery for a nation such as Iran.
This is the story of Iran, now expand it globally and figure what is going on in this world!
My friend, you have not lost your faith in humanity and you believe that neither have I. But isn’t what we do, a losing battle? At personal scale, individual scale and minor social scale we are doing great and make changes but in grand scale, globally we are fighting a losing battle! Not so?This is what I mean by being a Rebel! We are fighting a losing battle but we continue doing so. That is the spirit of a Rebel!
Truly enjoying these chats with you. A worthy mind, that’s what you are. Folks like you are the reason that I still have some respect for the humanity!
I leave you with this thought,
Here’s one of my latest created idioms:“Life without Evolution is like American Football without Forward Pass!”
Amen Brother ...AX