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Iranology: Iran 101 - Iran 110 (Courses on Real Iranian Culture!)
by Admzad
Part One
Part Two

Iranology
Part One

Iran101- hate, tazaad
Iran102- chaos, cheating
Iran103- mourning
Iran104- education
Iran105- moqol



Iran101- hate, tazaad

IRAN 101 - Hate, Tazaad, COLD-HOT

I've read some of the letters written about Leila. Somebody said:

<Why some of us Iranians have to bring ourselves down to such lowest depths of humanity?
... Why do we have to prove that we are still a bunch of treacherous, inhuman and deeply
callous characters? >

Isn't Hatred one of the features of Iranian culture?

In theory, we hear a lot about:
- Iranians are 'noble' Aryan
- pendaareh nik, kerdareh nik, goftaareh nnik
- Muslems are kind & don't even step on annts
- Iranians often brag & look down at Ameriicans/Canadians/Australians:
"inhaa messleh maa taarikh nadaarand"
- Many articles with so much kind words inn them: "nassihat",
"azizaaneh man" , "khaaharaan/baraadaraan".
- if you fly, u'd be a bird; If you walk oon water, you'd be stick;
Love & be loved if you want to be somebody.

But in practice:
- In early days of Bahai, some were paradeed in the city with
lit candles inserted in holes made in their bodies -Kasravi.
(what kind of 'creatures' would do this?!)
- It was said that Saavaaki's were importeed from Israel(coz
mardomeh sharifeh Iran wouldn't torture fellow Iranians!).
Surely they must all have gone back by now, so there should
not be any torture in Iran, right?
- Look at the chat forums of Iranians, it''s all swear words
(goftaareh nik?) & hatred. And most of them have fake ID's
or names, WHY?!
- They can't even organize a poetry night outside Iran due to
hatred/Ego/arrogance/division.
- So much lies & hatred & division & killiing.
(my western friends make fun of me by mimiking me "I Killl U",
which made me realize that I say it too often(jokingly) &
this is not common in the west)
- Every party/group HATES every other partty/group.
- They always find a escapegoat: Shah/Falllaahian/...
'They' caused/forced the hatred/killing/torture.
NO, it wasn't Stalin who killed/tortured millions of Russians,
it was the russian people who did it.
- Millions of them think all their female singers are whores.
Others think they are filthy rich, yet others love their
female singers to death.

Can we expect more from a culture that brags & takes pride in
"Boro kaar meekon magoo chist kaar ..." ,
BUT in reality everyone knows that "Kaar maaleh Khareh":
If you work hard, you are KHAR-kaar
if you study hard, you are KHAR-khoon
the word for laborer is an insult: amaleh
?!

They either love you to death(usually after you are dead:
the things they said/did to Neemaa; then they made him a hero
after his death), or hate you to death. One way or another it's
always DEATH.

Look at how they treated their KING.
I heard nothing but Jaavid-Shah for years & years. Everybody
had his picture in their shops/offices, then all of a sudden
blind-savage-hatred. Now somebody else's picture has to be
in every shop/office(till another cycle of hatred starts?)!
I still remember seeing on TV some people holding & kissing
pictures of valiahd, but look at them now? Can they be trusted?
They are full of emotions that can be easily changed over night
& explode & cause so much harm.

I remember some Iranian guy saying years ago to his
kids "iraninaa hamisheh poshtet aadam harf dar miaaran"

Once in a park I saw an Iranian father telling his child, who
was trying to touch a bird, "nah baabaa joon dast nazan, sang
bendaaz behesh".

They burn a cinema full of people to blame the other party!

They start a bloody/savage war & fight it blindly & almost
destroy the country. Then they go around blaming each other for
starting it (or blame the Brits/US. Why were you stupid to be
fooled?). They write books later & call each other names, but
their 'facts' are so full of bias that you don't know who to believe.

Even the big/super revolutionaries now write books saying they
were so "hysterical" with the 'fever of revolution' that they didn't
see what was happening/coming. And accuse others of stealing the
revolution.

It all seems to be full of Hate, begging(holy Imaams to fix their
everyday trivial problems), mocking others(Torkeh x, rashtieh y, etc.
So even oustside religion they don't have 'unity') and mourning/azaadari
over & over & over.

Even the music is so sad/rozehkhoony one minute, then explodes into
dancing(read sinfull) rythem.

There is no middle ground, it is either too hot, or too cold.
Everything is a sin: laughing, singing, dancing.
But in a wedding anything goes & people go crazy: dance/sing/cry/...
for hours.

Nothing is serious & there is no integrity:
you lie, you cheat, you bribe, you beg.
"Sakht nageer baabaa, khosh baash, dammet garm"

In late 78 people used to say "come to my house tonight
for 'Allaho-Akbar-Baazi'" (going to the roof & shouting AA).
As if it was a joke, people going to demonstration & laughing &
not having a clue what they were doing.
Same people who used to shout with all their being 'Jaavid Shaah',
now say 'Marg bar shaah'!?
I have met many who went to 'tazaahoraat', but now live in the west
with 2 passports(which is not allowed) & say "maa nemydoonestim".

All lies/emotion/Ego/Gheyrat/mardaanegy/Fanatisizm/hatred/hysteria
& no brain!

Then they blame the 'west' for manipulating/buying/fooling them for
over 100 Years!

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

To make things worst, the 'facts' seems to depend on whose side you are on.
I saw one documentary where they showed a film of a young Russian woman
lecturing the peasants in 1924 during Stalin times. Then she was shown
in her old age talking with pride how she used to wear birch-bark sandals &
didn't have anything, but the revolution gave her everything, so she
loved Stalin. Then another guy was saying how he suffered in the camps
for years & how he hated Stalin because of it.
Yet in another documentary, this Russian guy saying "no wonder we are
a nation of thieves & murderers, we killed all our intellectuals
& educated people in cold blood".

The scorpion wants to cross the river and asks the frog if he can climb
onto his back and have the frog swim across the stream. The frog says,
well no because you will get excited & sting me. The scorpion says,
no I wont. So the frog tells him to jump on his back, and together they
swim to the middle of the river. Sure enough the scorpion gets excited
& stings the frog. The frog says: see I told you this would happen, now
we are both gona die, what's the logic behind this?
The scorpion says: we are in middle-east, you are looking for logic?!

------------------------------------------------

Dear David,
I read the link u gave. Very interesting, thanks again!

"In unity there are two major issues are involved:
1. Ability to manage the difference of views and policies.
2. Ability to give up something in order to gain something else in return."

How about:
3. Ability to recognize & accept the better-idea even when it's not ours!
4. Ability to let the best man win.
It's about doing one's best & cooperation & brotherhood, not winning/loosing.
5. just because somebody else 'wins' doesn't mean we should become their
morid/fadaayi & throw ourselves on their feet, nor it means we should
hate them & try to get rid of them!

I've seen too many arguments in my area of work, when EGO prevents people
from doing this. If westerners do it, then it must be worst among Iranians.
Often people side with others & would only support ideas coming from
those they support. So they go on & on arguing. The idea should be more
important than the person behind it.

" We Iranians are not team player."

Amen.
Too much EGO & Qeyrat/mardaanegi?
Are Iranian women like this too?
I've known women who were dominated by their maadar-shuhar & havu!

" Non of us know this process(democracy) and only by practicing this,
we would become good at it."

Amen!

"However we don't even have any equivalent word('Sharing') in Parsi for this word"

Point taken & agreed.
But, my aunt had a Naneh (old lady) who looked after her kids, who used to fight over food.
She used to tell them "sharik shariky bakhurid" !

"we need to learn how to share with each other. The distribution of
power and independence of public office should be respected and practiced."

As a child I saw my oldest uncle making too many mistakes, but he was DAADAASH &
nobody dared to criticize him. When I reached 17, I asked my brother/sisters
NOT to call me DAADAASH anymore & use my first name instead.
Dictatorship starts from HOME! I remember many kids who treated their kolfat
& nokar like dirt & ordered them around & insulted them.

Loved your "taglid" factor!!!

Loved your 'lobster' factor too. I heard a similar story from an Indian friend:
a successful indian guy kept Indian black crabs in an open jar on his desk in
the office. One day his visitor asked "can't they get out"? He said no these are
Indian crabs, the moment one tries to rise, others will pull him down.

I remember too many times hearing Iranians calling other well-off Iranians names!

"... everything is a mess. ...
The goal is to try to clean up the mess."

Not at all, I have to disagree with u on this!
"All those insinuations about Persian culture, history and civilization are
absolutely untrue,...>

Just kidding David, my sarcasm took over.
Amen!

Surena,
the sooner we 'accept' & clean up the mess, the better!
I don't mean we should 'kill' all the germs, but just to gently educate & clean.

I read in iranian.com, Guive Minfendereski saying something about Iranians
having the Ostrich syndrome. We should take out our head from the sand & try
to SEE & identify the problems correctly & not look for escape goats.

Somebody said:
" there is no guarantee that they would form a government that I will like."

We need a reasonable 'system' that would ensure power is not abused & could get
the country going on the right path. Some Americans can't stand GW Bush, but
the 'system' works; it's not perfect & they have corruption, but it 'works' much
better than ours! Even people like Chomsky live in it & say what they want.

"Unity takes place when people or political parties realize that the
balance of power is changing."
"It was about six months before 79 uprising that people gradually
first started whispering each others ears about Unity, and then
started talking about unity in public."

I think we are talking about the Palang factor here (see NaaPahlavi).

I read that Khomeini was quiet for years, then all of a sudden
sends message to Qom that 'change is in the air', I don't think
he saw it on the moon or a dream. He must've been 'approached'.
He never said anything about CIA meeting with his people in Paris.
A TOP American General goes to Tehran, without Shah knowing to
ensure safe-return of Khomeini to Iran! Shah wrote that he had
sensed it coming & gave a few proofs for it in his book.
I wonder how much they spent this time?!

Many Iranians brag that they got rid of the SHAH. If this is so,
then how come they can't get rid of Mullahs in 22 years of constant
pain/torture/murder? There are far more people in opposition than
ever before with many parties/hezb, but nothing happens. After 20
years they elect another Mullah, who admits he can't do anything!
Some people still go around saying Shah was cruel, yet Shah was a
saint compared to the Mullahs!

We should not kid ourselves that it was Iranian-people who removed Shah.

"The reason they won't(unite) is because of their selfishness and jealousy."

Amen!
And of course EGO/madraanegi/Qeyrat!

"Basically there are two groups in our society:
A. Those who want to build, and make progress.
B. Those who want to destroy and ruin everything that exist."

Amen!
Some are in B , but don't even know it.

I think no matter who takes over from IRI, if ever(!), it MUST have the 'blessing'
of UK/US, or else they won't get there or won't last long (thanks to so many who
have sold themselves or Iran & will do it again). At least we know this much from
our history!

And there WILL be corruption & Dictatorship; if not high up, it will down bellow!
Y? coz the culture doesn't have what it takes at the moment.
We should stop fighting over choosing the perfect system, coz whatever we choose
will NOT remain perfect. Even if we found Kaaveh/Rostam, there are plenty around
who would kill our hero (like those who killed Kasravi & set fire to Abadan cinema).
IRI should be replaced with a reasonable system which would allow building
the country & cleaning up the culture/MESS.

-------------------------------------------------

Dear all,

I've heard too much about punishment.

"will savakies admit to their crimes and appologize ?
will ir savages admit to their crimes and appologize ?"

Interesting point.
There is this international-law lawyer, whose name I forget(Geoffrey Robinson?).
He had a TV program called hypothetical (IIRC). He had many people on
his show talking about a hypothetical situation like imagine this has
happened, now what would u do minister of so & so. In one his shows in Australia,
he talked about Nazi criminals & that some of them were committed 50 years ego,
should we still chase them up? Eventually gets somebody high up in government
saying "all criminals should be punished no matter when the crime was done".

So he immediately asked "no matter what country?". The answer was a firm YES.
Then he asked what about the Aborigines then? The Gov official went RED/pale
and many in the audience applauded. Rape/Murder/genocide of Aborigines is a
very HOT issue in Australia.

This is still a major issue. I heard some American journalists saying they
Didn't like these European courts going around prosecuting others, coz it
Could turn nasty, they could prosecute many Americans for Vietnam.

Where do we draw the line?

Many pasebaan & zhaandaarm & Arbaab deputies did a lot of bad things too.

Are we gona create another Hate cycle?

OK, suppose we kill them all. What would happen to their families & kids?
It will create a hate party where people will just go around & accuse anybody
they don't like as Savak.

Do u really think the new Gov will not have secret police? Do u really think
this will stop violence & brutality in Iran?

They were all Iranians doing it to Iranians going round & round in cycle of
hate & violence.

How do they apologize? Like this:
goh khordam
Qalat kardam
toro khodaa mano bebakhshid
man bichaareh hastam
man nafahmidam
khodaa mano zallllliiiiiiiiiil koneh

Or 'I was following orders' would do?

Should they be drugged or hanged or beaten to death by the people?
Should it all be shown on TV?
Should we beat them, then hang them & cut their balls & put them in their mouth?
(I heard this is what happened to the Savak officer who took Kh to Jail)

But Y should we stop there?
Y not kill everybody who voted for IRI?
Y not go back in time?
How about those Bahai that were beaten & paraded around with lit candles stuck in
man-made holes in their bodies? (Or is Kasravi lying again?)
Weren't those Bahai real Iranians?
Should we not blame the Qajars for this & go & kill them all too?

If Iranian Muslims can hurt other Muslims so much, God knows what they've done
to non Muslims in the last 200 years alone!

Is it OK for Iranians to kill non Iranians?
Should we return all the treasures that Naader 'took' from India? How about all those
Who were killed in the invasion of India?

Who are Iranians? Which point in history? Are the southern Russians Iranians?

Why not go back & find all the Safavi's descendant & kill them too, coz they invented
Najes, right?

Why not kill all the Greeks too?

Yeh, lets NUC the whole God damn world & make Imam Zamaan to appear!

23 God damn years of pain/murder/mistakes/regrets & we are still full of HATE?!

Maybe this is what happened to the dinosaurs. Instead of getting their acts together
& find a solution for their survival, they kept on fighting each other.

There is no mercy or free lunch in evolution, it's a jungle out there & those who
can't manage won't live long.

Bachehaayeh aziz:
meanwhile back in the woods the bad bad wolf raqaasi mikoneh!

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Iran102- chaos, cheating

IRAN 102 - Chaos, Cheating, Partybaazy

I'd like to talk about some of the things I've seen which could shed
some light on Iranian culture. I hope others could talk about & share
their observations/experiences on Iranian culture too.

1- I was trying to mix with Iranians, after having avoided them for
about 10 Years after the big "blood bath, Revenge/Hate party", and
went to a Sizdehbedar gathering outside Iran.

They gathered in a major park with Iranian flags(don't remember which
one, but it couldn't have been the new one due to so much music/dance,
perhaps it didn't have anything in the middle?) all over the place,
which stood out (not a feature of that country). They used
hand-held-speakers (bolandgu), which
was not a thing to do in that country.

They were divided into 'family' groups, but you had to be careful
whom you said hello to! Everybody was looking from the corner of their
eyes to see what others were doing & who was talking to whom & gossip
galore. Most groups had their own music & many danced too. Too many smoked.

Most of the older ones (over 40) didn't have the shaadi & the
spark-in-the-eye that was seen in most of the younger ones. The
newly arrived from Iran were 'shy' & there was uncertainty in
their eyes(not found a job yet, still living with the relatives,
...?). Young men tried not to be too obvious that they were
checking out the girls.

2- I was walking with an Iranian guy & he saw a young girl (25)
with no hejaab.

He greeted her & talked to her in a very warm/polite manner:
Salaam Khaanum, Haaleh Shoma, Maamaan khuban, Baabaa khuban, ...,
Kheyli Salaam beresunid, qorrrrrrrrrbunnnnnnnnnnneh Shomaa

I was thinking all the time gee 'garmiyeh Iruniaa' is something else &
I should not avoid Iranians, this is where I 'belong'!

Then the guy told me: Havaaset baasheh haa, in dokhtareh rahemesho
chandaffeh amal kardeh(ie. watch out, not only she is not a
'virgin', but she has aborted a few times).

I wouldn't be surprised to know that she too said bad things about him!

3- After lunch there was sporting games (mosaabeqeh).
All adults were so full they couldn't move. So this was for the
kids. It was the race where you get into a sack & have to run/jump
in it. A guy was using the bolandgu (like the Ashura days?) trying
to explain the rules to the kids, who were anything from 5 to 14
years old (!). Some fathers were helping the young ones. They had to
run to the end, about 30 m away, and run back to the start-line. It
was hard for the small kids to see the end because people were walking
everywhere & it was very crowded & noisy (another feature?). The kids
could not even hear the guy properly because he kept on turning his
back to them while talking.

Anyway the race started & the 'kids' ran for it. Soon there was a huge gap due
to the difference in size/age of the kids. It was very noisy/chaotic/crowded,
the guy was shouting in the speaker & some parents were shouting too.

In the middle of this CHAOS, one kid turned back even before reaching the 2/3,
a few others saw him & they turn back too, but some kids were still jumping to the
end. The guy with the speaker, while constantly shouting, somehow lost the plot &
started watching those who CHEATED by turning before reaching the end. Sure enough
3 of the big kids won & got their prizes.

Some of the honest kids were very upset & some of the young ones were crying.
Then I saw some of the fathers going to the prize-desk with their crying-kids doing
PAARTYBAAZI telling the guy in charge:
juneh man, bacheh geryeh meekoneh, gonaah daareh, yek jaayezeh ham be in bedin
(my child is crying, pls give him a prize too)

Sure enough some of these kids (who may not have even finished the race properly)
got some prizes. They immediately stopped crying & took the prizes to show/brag
to other kids(some of whom went to their fathers crying too!)

Later on I asked myself: aren't these the foundation/basic-principles of the Iranian
culture:
- Total CHAOS
- Any rule can be & will be broken
- Lack of LOGIC/sense
- CHEATING
- PAARTIBAAZI (bribery/corruption)
in every aspect of life from buying bread to whatever. If you are poor you do it
everyday buying bread, but you complain when you can't because it's out of your
league/class.
- FAVORITISM
- Hysteria/Shur/Hayyajaan (just look at soome the pictures of the election)
(Why is this? Is it because so much emotions are always forced inside?
Is it because Iranians have such sad lives?
Why are they always looking for the Messiah/Savior/Mahdi?
Was it like this before Shi'ite-Islam?)

So the kids learned a very important lesson that day:
In order to get anywhere in Iranian culture you must:
break the rules, lie, cheat, bribe & do Partybaazi!

If somebody had used their brain, all of this could/should have been avoided:
- have one race for each different age-grooup kids.
- They should run/jump from start to finissh (& not back!)
So the Guy starts the race & goes to the end watching that nobody cheats.

This is what I mean by:
All lies/emotion/Ego/qeyrat/Mardaanegy/Fanatisizm/hatred/hysteria/Hayyajaan
& no brain!

They don't think things through, just get angry & react & go on killing each other
with hatred & stupidity & destroy their own country with a 'Revolution'. But they
are surprised at the result & accuse each other of 'stealing the Revolution'!
And go around call each other names & blame foreigners & each other with so much
Bad-bini/Kineh.

They have some kind-soul like Khalkhaali go around killing people &
go around brag about it "I killed Hoveyda, you know." & write a book about it.
(see http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/81jul/believers.htm)
Did he read from Sa'di to the victims "bani AAdam Azaayeh Yek digarand,
...", before they were tortured/killed ?!

But Iran is not enough, they want to export this 'Hate' to other countries & take
over the world.

Then the whole country goes on another Hysterical-movement 'electing' somebody who
can't do much because his hands are tied. Even one Mullah said "well, you should
have told people your hands were tied & resigned".

The shame of it is that they have(had?) so many people with 'brain' who live
in exile or jails(treated with "Mehmun Navaaziyeh Garmeh Iruni"!) or murdered
(Kasravi & too many others).

I think this goes beyond 'Rezhim/Hezb' & bad-guy1/2/3/4/..., don't you agree?

Damet Garm, Bee Khiyaal, Saakht nagir baabaa, befarmaa'id dahanetuno shirin konid.

Baala raftim aab bud,
paa'in umadim duq bud,
Iran hamash duruq bud.

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Iran103- mourning

IRAN 103 - Mourning, Ashura, Rozeh-khuni

1- Once an Iranian couple (in their early 40's) came to
stay with me for 2 days from another city. On their first
day, they went to look at the city & came back with the
Video of Haayedeh's Funeral (Shabeh Khatm). They watched
it together & cried. This was their holiday!

Thinking back often I remember women in my extended family
crying when they got together & listened to sad songs.
Were they crying at the Ruzegaareh Siyaah, aging, lost
parents, lost youth, hard life?

2- Years ago my neighbors were an elderly couple (in their
80's). They were very polite & never spoke with
Hasrat(regret)/Bichaaregi/Zellat. I never heard them
complain about their kids not visiting them, or
Ruzegaareh Siyaah/talkh.

They were mostly active in their garden. The guy had eye
& heart problems & was hospitalized after a heart attack.
After a week he came back & told me he hated the hospital
& he wanted to be active. A week later he died on a buss
(& not in a hospital bed he hated so much).

I never saw his wife cry. I could see her sad when she
didn't know I was watching her. They must've accepted the
facts that they were old & were going to die soon. She
always tried to look nice & often would put on some make-up
to cover the deep wrinkles on her face. She would always give
me a BIG SMILE when I said hello to her. I knew she loved him
very much & would miss him & unlike Iranian couples there
wasn't much gap between their age.

She always kept busy with the garden or visiting friends
(going bowling) or going to Church). They had no shabeh-khatm,
no shabeh-haft, no shabeh-chelleh, no sinehzani, no covering
everywhere with BLACK cloth, no throwing herself on the ground,
no pulling her out, but she loved him & missed him.

I'm sure they must have had some private ceremony, but nothing
to prevent the neighbors from gossip/back-stabbing (Zanikeyeh
bihayyaa). They did NOT live for the 'Mardom'.
They were extremely un-Iranian, but I loved them both.

3- In contrast to 2 above, I once went to the majleseh tahrim
of a young Iranian who died in a car accident. I knew his
brother. I felt it was a special ceremony & somehow like a theater.
In this act everybody cries; then in the next act tea & sweets
are served (Befarmaa'id dahanetuno shirin konid), but I
was so upset with Boghz in my throat that I couldn't eat & was
not comfortable eating Sweats as if I was in a part!

The mother was Crying & 'talking' to his son "ey vaay, to
cheraa mordi Akbar jun? biyaa injaa beshin man beram jaayeh
to. Ey vaay khoda Mano zalil koneh. Ey vaay didi che khaaki
be saram shod. …".

The father had covered his face & was crying with his whole
body shaking. He looked totally 'broken' (Shekasteh) &
sometimes talked to his dead son as if he was there. Somebody
on my side said "Haaji kheyli bitaabi mikoneh".

Many would take a break & would go in the back to tell the kids
to be quiet & have a tea or talk with others who were there.
Oh the face of the small kids seeing their parents crying!
The kids tried to be quiet & sit close to them.

The people would come in & go to the front to say tasliyat to
the Daaqdideh parents. The parents spoke with so much
pain/hasrat/bichaaregi. For months I asked the brother
to go out for dinner but he refused.

I did not find any of this funny at all & was most upset &
depressed for weeks thinking.

The way the parents were talking to their dead son reminded
me of Rozeh-khuni (Moharram), where grown-up men cried with
their hand on their face & their whole body shaking & some
hitting their head. Then they had a tea break & talked with each
other while a new aakhund would walk in & some would get up to
say salaam in Arabic. But to keep the momentum going somebody
would give Salavaat & the whole crowd would 'participate' &
shout salavaat. Entertainment, Psycho Therapy, Brain wash,
Manipulation, Socio-Political Advice, Religion & Salvation,
Theater, Audience participation (Berthold Brecht eat your heart
out!), etc.

Sometimes some people would joke about how big the Shekameh
Aaqaa was, specially for the out-of-town aakhund.

In fact this is an important point, Y were most of the jokes
about 'outsiders'? But the strange thing was that if the
stranger Akhond made them to have a good-cry, they would be
his 'moreed'! So is the urge to Domination/hierarchy a factor
here? I mean we mock others to show we are superior to them,
until they prove otherwise, then we become their Morid?

Could rozzehkhoony pacify people?
They just sit there & listen & weep & let themselves be lectured
& manipulated, without questioning (u can't question GOD!)
or expressing opinion.

And I was thinking about Sineh Zani in Ashuraa. How many of
the Laato-Lut would join the Sineh Zani & how some of them
tried to impress the girls in black Chaadors who were
watching them.

Could a major contributing factor to Iranian culture be the
ASHURA factor or the salavaat factor:
just shout what the guy in front of the sineh-zani says.
Be it Marg-bar-x or jaavid-x, or whatever, as long as
it's a Sho'aar, we shout it loud, the louder the better!
Are we not 'conditioned' for it?

And I was thinking about Shahreh Qesseh:
Kaari keh mollah mikoneh, mellato dollaah mikoneh, baa
qolhovvallaah mikoneh, ...
Did Bizhan see it coming?!

4- I once rang my Aunt in Iran after her husband had died from
natural causes (old age), but she cried so hard saying "Ey
vaay x jun, didi ammat Zalil shod, Ey vaay x jun
Bichaareh shodam, Ey vaay …., EY VAAAAAAAAY Ey VAAAAAAAYYYY"
I couldn't say a word from the Boqz in my throat. After what
felt like hours, she said with total Zellat/Bichaaregi "khob
shomaa chetorid? Khosh Hastid?", but I couldn't talk!
I was so upset & shaken for weeks.

If we believe in the all-mighty & all-knowing GOD, then
should we not accept the fact that it was God's will & not
question it? Why should we always remember the dead with
Zellat/Bichaaregi/Khaari, why should we not CELEBRATE
their LIFE & who they were?

I sure don't want anybody to even cry after I die & would
like my loved Ones to remember me with fond/loving/HAPPY
memories.

Oh the art of the 'Islamic mourning' in Iran, God knows
how deeply it has gone into the Iranian psyche, most of
the music even sounds like mourning.

I would appreciate very much if some kind non-Muslim
Iranian souls would write to me/here to tell me their own
customs.

----------------------------------------------

I remember some people watching TV saying
"Ah in digeh kiyeh? Mesleh amaleh haa mimuneh.
Hameh digeh khaanandeh shodan!"

Could the point I made about <mocking 'outsiders'
& the urge to Domination/hierarchy> be a factor here?

-----------------------------------------------

People laugh for many reasons, sometimes even at
sad jokes. Sometimes they laugh out of frustration.

Not only I never laughed thinking about all this,
I have a bad headache now from reading this before I
posted it a few hrs ago, even though I wrote it 4 weeks ago.

A friend once said tragedy becomes comedy in time.
But I think that would depend on how much u were
burnt by it. If u suffered enough, u won't laugh.
A bitter smile maybe, but not laugh.

So much PAIN that could be avoided.
If only people could develop their BRAIN & learned to use it.

Sometimes we laugh to relief/release our stress too.

-----------------------------------------------

Thanks Morq & HM for your replies.

I'd love to find where this linking of hair-pulling/zellat/ey-vAy
with Atefeh/love comes from. I mean just because somebody
doesn't cry when their loved-one dies, doesn't prove
lack of love/Atefeh.

Could AshurA/rozeh-khuni be a factor here?
I mean if crying was not a feature of the culture, then
people would NOT pay somebody to make them cry would they?
Paying for laugh/comedy maybe, but not crying.

So the crowd had to be 'conditioned' for it, no?
Could it be that with khaaleh-zanaki & back stabbing like
being called bi-Atefeh biHayaa yazid ... & being afraid
of harfeh-mardom (specially in small towns where the clergy
must have been Gods), somehow people got conditioned into
crying?

I think harfeh-mardom plays an extremely important role in
the Iranian culture: "amaan az herfeh mardom!"
I remember some fuzul & lazy women going
around in small towns doing moftkhory & spreading
cruel gossip/rumor. Many knew how past/bisharm/doru they were & had
to treat them well.

I know many moved to Tehran(big city) to get away from
the social-pressure/restriction of the small towns, often
caused by Islamic factors. U had to go to masjed/rozeh-khuni,
u had to behave this way or say this/that, etc.

God knows how much damage has been done just by
this little feature of fuzuli/gossip by khaaleh-zanakaan & the
pressures put on girls/women
for not being torshideh & behaving this way or
that way. Keeping up with Joneses in cultures that
suffer from dictatorship/domination/hierarchy
can be far worst than what we see in the west!

Even women try to get into the act using their
husband/arbaab wealth & have to be zaneh-arbaab (haaj khanum)
& behave this/that way.

-----------------------------------------------

Nice post David (as usual!).
I agree with all u said.

When I think way back, to a few trips I had to
small towns in the north in my childhood, I remember:

1- Women/men who worked on the fields seemed much
happier & outgoing. They often sang while working (men side
by side women). They often joked with each other too.
Nobody wore black chaador!

2- u saw black chAdors in small/big towns!
This is where u had to look 'respectable' & be aware of
harfeh-mardom!
But there were exceptions too: I remember this 'old' haaji,
who had 30 yo kids, got caught in a women public bath with
a young woman. Many joked about it.

3- Perhaps this lack of entertainment is a factor
for so much ceremony in rozeh-khuni. We wash hands & feet
in a ritual first, then we namaaz together (physical
movement, warm up the body). We then sit around together &
tea with sugar is served, have a chat, relax, watch who is
coming/going, gossip, then listen to speech/ceremony, then
rozeh-hkhuni & crying, then salavaat, next another round of
tea & sugar is served, people feeling sabok from crying, & on & on.

4- Ashuraa was a major source of activities for many families:
they made halvaa, sharbat, ..., kids were sent to serve these
to people, dasteh, ...
Boys showing off in sineh zani when girls looked.
Ta'ziyeh in many small towns was a major source of 'entertainment'.
I don't mean to be rude/sarcastic, but in a way
this was a major entertaining activity.

We are talking about towns that had no TV or
cinema & come dusk u could hear the azaan all over
the town & shops closing & people going to masjed.

5- I remember many young boys laughing hysterically when
they saw a horse shaash, or got excited.
A super major source of entertainment for the kids at least.
Of course there was laughing at fool of the town too, which was
sometimes very cruel coz they picked on mentally-retarded.

6- Last but not least I remember many young boys talking
about maadiyun (mare) & bragging about having sex with them.
This I found absolutely shocking, being a big-city boy &
having had a sheltered life.

Considering that many books have been written by some of
major olamaayeh dini about this subject describing when & how
it is OK to do it, this must be an important source of
'entertainment' in small towns/villages.

We must clean UP the culture first if we want 'democracy' in Iran.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Dear IN,

Thanks for your kind words!

I can't tell u how happy I feel when I see Iranians being KIND to
each other & mean it! Not just to somebody in their hezb/party/group,
but to the 'opposition/enemy'! It is possible guys! I do remember a lot of
kindness from my childhood too!

I got so disgusted by the big Revulsion, that I switched-OFF from
Iran & for 10 years I had so much anger & hate in me towards aakhund
& anything Islamic & held all Iranians responsible.

For over 10 years, I kept of saying: no not all
Iranians are terrorists/Mullahs/fanatics, no
not-without-my-daughter is not common, no we
don't do female circumcision, ...

After 15 years I discovered y it's been said "dar afv lezzatist keh
dar enteqaam nist". I have not forgotten & will never forget, but
hate & anger are very destructive.

It's been said that to find friends one must close one eye & to keep
them one must sometimes close both eyes. Iranians must learn to
cooperate & not be domineering/dictatorial/hierarchical.

Up to 6 months ago, I did not know who the president was in Iran, or
who the presidents were in 79-2001! Two years ago I looked at some
Iranian chat-site full of the most rakik fohsh, so bad that one guy
pleaded for it to stop. U could argue that the Fohsh-giver was the IRI
agent or some other hezb member trying to cause damage. But the fact
is that it disgusted me again.

Iran has given me too much pain in the last 30 years that I care to
remember. I've seen many of loved-ones loose the spark-of-life in
their eyes & many had heart attacks. Every time I get a picture of
my loved ones from Iran, it makes me depressed for weeks.

I'm sick of these words: sho'aar, enqelaab, aazaadi, freedom, hezb, ...
I'd like to see a 'reasonable' government in Iran working towards
welfare of all Iranians of all religions. I doubt if we could have
true democracy in Iran in the next 200 years. We must build the culture
for it first.

Most of my loved-ones are Muslims, so I wouldn't say bad things about
Islam in front of them, and I can't hate them. My love for them goes
beyond religion! Also, the Islam I remember was NOT full of hate/anger.
I'm not saying Islam is good, but it should/can be much better than it
has been in Iran. If most people were intelligent & could THINK, we'd
have less social/religious problems in Iran.

I read a book about this Mullah who turned against IRI, coz he found it
too cruel. He talked about his childhood growing up in Qom(?) & always
being careful not to step on ants! Does anybody remember the name of the
book? IIRC there was 'prophet' in the title.

I've worked in many countries & have had friends from many different
religions. I judge people for who they are, not for their country of
origin or their religion.

I know Islam will be in Iran 200 yrs from now, if Iran as we know it
still exist! It may have less supporters, or more intelligent supporters
, but it will be there. The solution is NOT to KILL all aakhund. They too
are Iranians. We've had too much HATE!

I'd like Iranians learn to THINK & seek knowledge & use logic/sense &
be compassionate towards life & all living creatures, & learn to LIVE.

But to get there we need to clean the dark spots in the culture &
educate the people. But this is a catch-22 situation. We need a reasonable
government for doing this. And to have that we need to cooperate & work
together: left/right/up/down & Islam! We must learn that we are all in
this sinking boat together!

-----------------------------------------------------------

Is it the the salavaat factor which causes the following:

(just shout whatever u r told.
Be it Marg-bar-x or jaavid-x, or whatever, as long as
it's a Sho'aar, we shout it loud, the louder the better!)

or the Baabaa-aab-daad factor in schools?

All shouting, the louder the better.

Could it be that all this shouting prevents people from THINKing?

baabaa aab daad, emaam marg daad!

Back to top

Iran104- education

IRAN 104 - Education, Parents

Y are Iranian University students so angry?
What are the real reasons/factors behind their anger/frustration?
Could suppression of sex & the urge for domination play a role in this?

In the west, most young people constantly try to have fun & enjoy life.
They are always looking forward to weekends & try to plan their next
fun thing to do: sport, camping, drinking, SEX, dancing/party, etc.
They are so full of life & u can see the 'spark' of life in their eyes.
They learn to socialize with the opposite sex & learn to come to
terms with their sexuality early in life. They go to university if
they like it, else they just do whatever they find. They do NOT have
to be Dr/Eng To be somebody & have a normal/comfortable life.

In high school there was a major division btwn the top students, whom
others called ostaad & others. Many of the ostaads looked down at the
other students. One guy was very jealous & would only talk to u if u
were one of the top students. He couldn't stand it when somebody else
solved the math problem. He was a never-miss-prayer Muslim with baazaari
father (I think?). He wore modern clothes & He was not good in sports &
played basketball like a bulldozer.

In one of the after-diploma gathering, I saw a lot of EGO & looking down
at others: I'm in fanni, I'm in Beirut, I'm in aaryaamehr. Every discussion
had to have winners & losers: it was a war for supremacy & domination!
U didn't let the other guy finish, u didn't even listen let alone God
forbid agree with him! Or u could see back & watch the others whom u
regarded as idiots fight it out.

Thinking back to my high school days, we were never encouraged to read!
What a LOSS. I don't ever remember seeing kids in small towns
reading. They were always hanging out in the streets. The only time
I saw them reading was during exams, when they walked up & down in small
alleys reading & memorizing & looking at the girls. They just memorized,
never had a chance to really THINK & absorb. They did it just to pass
the exam. I don't think kids in schools were/are taught to THINK and
this is a shame.

In contrast, I see a lot of public libraries in the west which are free
& heavily used. Many kids learn to read from an early age in the west.
Some of the parents even read books for them in bed at night. I wonder
what % of Iranian parents do this?!

Come to think of it, I never saw many adult shopkeepers reading books
in Iran, many just sat in the shop waiting for customers, or talked
rubbish, & I do mean rubbish & filth, with the other shopkeepers.

I remember seeing the feeling of defeat/failure in most students in
year-12. They were sad because they knew they couldn't make it to
what they saw as the 'TOP' fields in the top universities. I could
also see the arrogance of the top students looking down at others
& bragging about what they were gona choose in Konkur. The average
students had to take what was left & other students had to face
the nightmare of military service & the fact that they would never
be Aaqaayeh Doktor/Mohandes & had to be nobodies.

Even the top ones didn't have a clue what was it really like to
be/study this or that field, but still used their perception in their
power-game : mine is bigger than yours, I'm going to Fanni, Well 'I'
am going to Aaryaamehr, etc. Top students were often called Ostaad.

But this was a good private school in Tehran, things must have been
far worst in small towns.

Many who felt so triumphant for making it to the university learnt
that getting there was just a beginning! Many didn't even like their
major/field after 2 years.

Many who were stuck with the unwanted fields couldn't get motivated.
Some, strangely enough, got to like it, but didn't see any future in
it(eg. biology). Many who could've done well, couldn't even get in.

In Fine-Arts college in Tehran University, they had a term for uptight
serious male students, who usually were 'enqelaabi' & didn't joke
with the girls & belonged to mountain climbing club. The term was
'Ann Aaqaa'. The AA were always in conflict with outgoing students,
who could socialize with the girls. Fine Art college café (kaafeh
teriyaayeh Honarhaa) was very popular and many students from other
colleges took their female friends/dates there. It had a very 'happy'
atmosphere & u could see many girls & boys sitting & talking together
in a much friendlier way than other colleges.

Every winter, there were serious fights btwn Honarhaa & other
colleges, in the name of barf-baazi (snow-fight) and sometimes it got
out of hand. Was jealousy a major factor behind this(I mean excluding
the big-D factor: Domination)?

I think being with, and knowing how to deal with, the opposite sex
was/IS a major issue among students. All being young & full of hormones
(u could say run-by-hormones), but they had too many taboos & restrictions
to kill the 'spark' in their eyes. Could this be a major factor in them
being so angry & frustrated & becoming 'enqelaabi'.

Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing 'relationship' among Iranians.
Once I was advised: yek dokhtareh javun begir va khodet tarbiyatesh kon.
I thought gee I don't want a child, I'd like a soul-mate!

Come to think of it true relationships are even hard to find in the west,
specially among the working class. In Australia red-necks are called
aakerz & they call women shiela's & see them good for 'rooting' only.

How could they form relationship in Iran when they never socialize!
I personally think lack-of-SEX is one of the major factors for ANGER
in Iran, at least in the 17-45 single men.
I don't mean just the physical-SEX, but romance & all the benefits it
can have : physical/spiritual/mental/...
It gives a new dimension to life.

We often hear jokes like "U seem very happy, did u get laid last night?"
It must be true folks, a good & romantic relationship does miracles.

I remember a few students, who were shy coming from small towns, who
used to wear conservative cloths. But after 2 years in Honarhaa college,
they started wearing after-shave & learned to be cool(long hair) & joked
with the girls & were less serious/enqelaabi.

And of course the big gap btwn the rich & the middle class & the really
Poor (amaleh/abehozy/…) is a major factor too. Could it be that they think
they know it all & read a few books & look at the social structure & become
Enqelaabi? A guy in Honarha was from a very poor family & he was angry at
Many things, but he was not Enqelaabi. He joked a lot too.

In my university days in mid 70's in Tehran. One day I saw posters
on the wall saying "dear brothers/sisters, don't go to classes
because Shah is torturing students ...". Later I found out that one student
was beaten up with metal-pipes & was hospitalized for going to a class on
that day. So I thought to myself: Hmmm, these guys (daaneshjuyaaneh shojaa va
sharifeh Iran) will beat up people(their own 'brothers/sisters') to death
now, when they are NOT in-power. What would they do when they took over?
I heard the student who got beaten up was just a student & not related to
any party/Hezb/...

I said this to many I knew who went to allaaho-akbar-Baazi & Tazaahoraat, but
they were too full of Hayajaan to think.

One evening, I was at a difficult lecture. The Ostaad was tired having taught
many classes all day. One student(enqelaaby) started laughing at a joke
from the guy in front of him & he was disturbing the class.
The Ostaad stopped & said something polite(don't remember what) to the student.
The student got up & told OFF the Ostaad in a very rude & threatening manner:
to be maa chikaar daari, to darseto bedeh!
I was melted down into shame, he didn't even use Shomaa & said 'to' in a insulting
Tone.

Knowledge should bring enlightenment & compassion & NOT HATE & ANGER & murder,
or am I being naive & romantic?

Why Iranian kids are so hyperactive & jushi/hayajaani?

Could these be some of the factors:
-they are adored when babies, they are huggged & played with hyperactively.
-when the next baby comes along, they are ignored & are expected
to behave & be grown-up.
-they don't learn to think & talk & expresss themselves, when they are thrown
up & down & spoken to in baby-talk.
-they are treated like cattle in schools wwithout getting any individual
attention. Just repeat & shout what u r told & memorize:
baabaa naan daad, ...
-they don't get enough quality 'attention'' at home.

I've seen western friends just following their kids all day & let
them explore & learn. Once I saw the mother took a 2 yo girl out of the car
to go shopping. Every time the girl saw a puddle of water, she wanted to walk
into it. The mother patiently let her do it & waited till she was finished,
rather than pulling her hand & shouting "aay zalil beshi bacheh, biyaa,
tu aab naro, khafam kardi".

Can frustrated uneducated unhappy mothers/fathers who struggle for their
daily expenses, broken down under so much social burdens/pressures/khoraafaat
be good parents? Nothing to be happy about, nothing to look forward to, no
'holiday' plan in the tropics, no candle light dinners, just Ashura & taasu'aa
& HARFEH MARDOM.

u grow up in a crowded family, without a room of your own, sleeping with
brothers/sisters in one room. Baazigushi & fight & surviving the exams in
school (if u r lucky to go to one), trying to control suppressed urges,
learning the rules of the CHAOS (read IRAN102), never learning to THINK
& running on hormones & qeyrat/shur/hayajaan.

If u r lucky & pass the konkur nightmare, u go to UNI & end up working
hard & being angry & frustrated. But if u don't pass konkur, u r dead:
the nightmare of Sarbaazi & all the waste coming from it. When u come
out, u have nothing & are nobody & know u will never be somebody (Dr/mohandes)!

If u make it this far, before u know it u r married & have to put up with
maadar/pedar shohar, some of whom could be cruel dictators(are we gona blame
Shah for this too?!) & next thing u know u have 5 kids, all crying at the
same time. u go out carrying the crying kids/maarmolaks & all the bags while
holding your BLACK chaador in hot weather on a noisy bus shouting
"aay zalil shodeh khafam kardi"!

Be gentle folks, even to your enemies!
And enjoy LIFE while u can!

---------------------------------------------------------

Dear Range Bar,

U r more than welcome to disagree with me, coz when it comes to Iranian
Culture I'd love to be dead WRONG. I'm not heading any party or hezb &
have no intention of Dictating anything or anybody.

If I thought west was perfect, I'd be a westerner & live happily ever after
in it. There are too much tragedy in the west too: rape, rang rape, child abuse,
domestic violence, greed, SEX-is-everything, u-must-have-SEX, drugs, etc.

"many Iranians inside and outside of Iran have always had a happy, and active
life style"

Are u including all those kolfat/nokar/amaleh/abehozi in this too?
How about all those young arus who were treated like dirt/slave by their
Pedar/maadar shuhar & havu?

Sure, many people in IRI have laughed all the way to the bank & have been very
active.

"Many of Iranian teenagers and adults including the college students did
have a happy life and many were sexually active before their marriages,"

Sure, many did it in "unnatural ways", if u catch my drift. A female friend
once cried for me coz her X-boyfriend, who slept with her for years, had dumped
her saying he would never marry a non-virgin. They were both educated too.

Once somebody told me about how he & his friends gang-raped a young girl who
was in love with him. I assure u I'm not making up stories. One woman recently
wrote a letter to Iranian.com saying she was raped at 2 (IIRC)! God knows how
many kolfats were raped by pesar-arbaab. I have personally heard from people
who said they used to chase after dokhtar dehaati & have sex with them, the
unnatural way coz they had a heart, in their sarbaazi (sepaahi days).

Iran is NOT just the minority 'intellectuals' in Tehran or now in the 'west'.

"Also, college still is a big deal for many parents in west…"

Sure, but it is true mostly for Immigrant families.
After many years in school/UNI, I had problem finding a job. My neighbor who
had left school & was a gardener, used to laugh at me coz he had 3 houses when
he was 30!

I take no pleasure in this 'talk' & It has taken me over 20 years to bring myself
to admit & accept some of these things. Even now, I'm only raising questions and
am not an authority on the subject.

--------------------------------------

I got a reply from a friend who said:

(
As we were looking at the pictures, we came across her
grandson, who is about the same age as me, and I said,
whatever happened to him? Then she went into this long
talk, and kept repeating "Een Bahooshtareen Estudent'eh"
and kept ranting on about how he was the top student and
so on... Then she asked me, what have I achieved, and I
told her, that so far, I haven't achieved anything
academic, because I haven't been to school for 6 months!
Then, I saw a look of glee in her face, that looked like
she was proud that her grandson had achieved something,
before me!
)

This is an excellent reply.
I had completely frogotten about this bit!

In my younger days I used to be very touchy about
this & used to think "giram pesareh to bud faasel,
az fasleh pesar toraa che haasel"

Coz it was common to say that u should not brag about
who your father was & try to be somebody yourself.
"giram pedareh to bud faasel, ..."

Yes I remember seeing many parents take pleasure in seeing
even the children of their own brothers/sisters failing konkur,
or getting into what they thought was 'lower' than their own
children's fields in UNI.

Yes the urge for dominance/superiority is very strong among
brothers & sisters too.

It was even worst among non family members in a society that
runs on harfeh mardom, where u live in fear of Harfeh mardom.
This is even worst in small towns! u'r not supposed to wear
this clothes or that coz "aaberuyeh aaqayeh x mireh"!


It saddens me when I think how easier it is to go
to UNI in the west & how some not so-good high school
students could change & do very well in UNI. But these
wouldn't have a chance in Iran coz if u fail konur, u r
history. Although u could try again, but many don't.

I wonder what this does to young people. U have the urge
to be superior to others & brag & exaggerate & be dominant.
But u fail konur & had to go sarbaazi & when u come out
U've forgotten all about riyaazi/shimi. If u were good, u'd
have not failed in the first place.

I remember many parents using other kids as models to their Kids:
"az x yaad begir, bebin che aaqaast, bebin che dars khuneh".
But this created a lot of resentments & oqdeh too.

I know some men who still carry scars from this.

If u were rich, u could go khaarej, else u could even go to
India. But if u didn't want to go to school & were not rich,
then god help u! So much cheshmeh ham baazi & pretense!

In the west u could even live a comfortable life being a
Gardener/plumber/mechanic, but in Iran u wouldn't get much
respect if u told people u were a gardener would u?

And what if u were not rich & couldn't even finish high school?
Doomed forever!

Boro kaar mikon, keh kaar maleh khar ast!?

In this fight for survival & superiority & harfeh-mardom, some would
Make it to UNI, some of these would even be good at their fields &
reach the TOP, but some of them may find it hard to find a job with
good pay. Others would just get a degree/madrak. They all have to look
good, for themselves & for their parents who use their kids to show off.
Some would get into business & do well, others have to succeed through
dishonesty & cheating. Thing gets even worst when they have a few kids:
more pressure & more mouths to feed, faaty tombun mikhaad

I remember many who returned from khaarej without a proper
education but were called mohandes! Patents calling their
own sons Mohandes! Many real mohandes used to sneer at others
saying he is not a real mohandes!

Could this be a factor for so much doruq/lies/pretense: the expectations
& the values are NOT realistic, the rules don't make sense & r not logical,
so people are forced to lie & pretend?

People like to win & not loose, this is more so in a hierarchical &
domineering culture. Take the game in IRAN102, kids can't see the big
picture so they see there is chaos & everybody is cheating, so they too
have to do coz that's the only way they can win & look good.

U r not supposed to talk to opposite sex, but the young people
have to do it, so they have to lie about it. U can't even earn enough
to pay the rent, unless u r mohandes/doktor, so people have to lie
about it in order to survive the Chaos/mess, no?


My concern is that things are far worst now. Everything is secret now
in this environment of fear & hatred! Look at this BB & see how so many
intellectuals, many living outside Iran, don't use their real names &
how much mistrust there is. It must be worst among ordinary people in
Iran, no?

I heard many Iranian families are taking each other to court accusing
each other's fathers of stealing: my uncle owed my father, or he stole
from my father. All this happening after the fathers die & not before!

In LA I saw Qarib afshaar giving advice to people on TV in late 80's:
dear brothers it's OK to make money from each other, but try to make
less & more frequently & with honesty. He said he had heard many reports
of kolaah Bardaari & fraud.

Once I tried to help a friend in an Iranian concert. Nobody wanted to
sell tickets, so I was volunteered. In the middle of selling, I was asked
by another guy, who was a 'partner' from another city, to let another guy
take over. I didn't want to do it, but he said he was the boss. I couldn't
find my friend to give him the money, so had to hand it over to the stranger
from out of town.

Couple of weeks later I heard from another friend that the 'boss' had
found $500 missing that night & I was the 'suspect'! I tried to explain
to my friend that I didn't need the money & that I would not even do this
for $5000. I knew then y nobody else wanted to sell tickets! I've heard
many stories about money going missing, or artists not getting paid.

And the pressure to win & be superior doesn't help either. I heard this
guy buying an expensive car from a friend of a friend & finding something
wrong about it & complaining that: how could u not say anything, I trusted
u?! He was told "mageh chesh nadaashti, mikhaasty bebini!" The seller is a
practicing Muslim too. With all the pressure & bad economy, there is no
room for compassion & honesty. It's a dog eat dog rat-race.

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Iran105- moqol

IRAN 105 - Moqol, Temporary Culture

I found this in another BB & would like to know what u guys think about it?
Could this be a factor for the "Damet garm, bikhiyaal" culture?

------------------------------------
From: vahid
Date: 01 Jul 2001

wanna know about what factors contribute to dictatorship in Iran, or running on
shoor/hayyajaan rather than brain, obsession with crying/mourning, etc..

I'd recommend MA CHEGOONEH MA SHODEEM book by Dr. SADEQ ZEEBA
KALAM. He describes in his book that after the attack of Mongols Iranian self esteem fell
apart,, and a culture of TEMPORARYNESS replaced the culture of CONFIDENCE in
future. this happened because with every government came a new land owners,, therefore
Iranians trust in long term commitment,, based on a permanent land ownership,, vanished.
In Europe new victors generally respected the ownerships of land owners(except in
communist countries) and therefore their need to have laws and to obey laws became
crucial. They understood if they broke laws they would suffer in the long term. Hence
obeying the laws has become a part of their culture. Obviously Europeans had to put in
place the mechanisms of producing just laws (more or less)or it wouldn't have worked.

Since the Mongols we (the Iranians) have learned to survive by either cooperating with
whoever is in power, or by fighting whoever is in power. Those few attempts to
democratise the process of change in government have not been successful (so far). Slow
democratic process, such as Mosadeq era, and now Khatami era, are simply too slow for
our taste. We submit hundreds of reasons as why we need a new government, a new
revolution, etc,, and the process continues.

Read MA CHEGOONEH MA SHODEEM book by Dr. SADEQ ZEEBA KALAM,
I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It sheds some light on who we are.

Also, RADIO SEDAYE IRAN has a program with BAHRAM MOSHIRI. This gentleman
is very well versed in Iran's history. You will benefit from listening to his shows. I have.

----------------------------------------------

Dear David,

"Our problem is we are still hang up in the past....
Basically everybody is busy fighting their opponents for
what happened to them in the past."

I know I made a deal not to say Amen, but u've forced me to
go against my own word!
Amennn! & Bravo!

"May be the reason we like to talk about the past is because
of Dictatorship, we never had a chance to talk about those issues..."

Could this be the Palang factor in action!

"Again I am very much humbled with your very generous and warm word."

R u kidding me? It's me who is humbled & honored to have 'met' u!

For years I've avoided Iranians. For the first 10 years I hated them ALL!
Then I hated the Muslims. But I've learned hate is wrong & is extremely
destructive & after a lot of effort mngd to find some peace in me after
15 years.

Every time I went back into Iranians, I got burnt.

Now I've met somebody I really appreciate & can be proud of & can
introduce to my western friends with pride: see I told u not all
iranians are terrorist & savages.

David, maybe the key is that I have no hidden agenda to Dominate u
or anybody else. I don't belong to any party/hezb. I get on this BB
& read u'r posts & say Wow Amen! I don't get jealous coz I don't
want to rule the world, so I really enjoy the wisdom/logic behind
what u say! That was the whole idea behind me posting my cultural
comments on this BB, to get others contribute so together 'we' could
identify the problems. I don't have the answers, so even if people
disagree with me, my EGO (which I hope I've got rid of it by now)
won't get hurt. I'm not a writer/sociologist/academic, just an
avg guy sick of suffering of my loved ones.

Otherwise I'd be arguing with u in a battle for Domination, no?

And maybe because I know I don't have to be your Moreed & throw
myself at your feet & either love u to death or hate u to death.

I just have a lot of appreciation for your comments & wisdom &
respect u for it. Even if I get to disagree with u in future, it
would be to disagree with the idea/suggestion & not to disagree
with 'U'. If this happens I'd respectfully say Y I disagree & will
read your reply without bias & would still respect you for these
comments u've had in the past. I will not call u names & reject
totally coz u r this-hezb or that-party.

Actually I just remembered reading Zibakalaam's articles.
Many wrote to him & started with God's name & then Kh*-maaly that I'm
just a rustaa'iyeh bisavaad & u r my ostaad & then gradually get to
the point that I think what u said is full of sh-t. This is done
very politely but it's like a game of chaaplusy & end up stabbing the
the 'enemy' in the back with a traditional-knife & end up teaching
him a lesson & feeling triumphant. It's not a WAR, it's just an
intellectual discussion!

The classical one is his letter to beloved VF. Too much emphasis on
cosmetics & status & 'face'/aaberu/qeyrat & laqab (jenaabeh hazrateh
blah blah blah). What do u think about this David?

" Socio- psychologically we are suffering from our traumatic events
that have happened to us in the past."

Amen!

And at a personal level, God knows how many times I've woken up in a
sweat thinking about the unnecessary suffering of myself & my loved
ones in the past, all caused by the cultural Dark Spots!

Let me give u an example:
I was gona write this in another post, but I say it now.
In Grade 7-8, the teacher who taught Arabic was a child molester
Bacheh baaz. I know, I know Iranians are too sharif, but we did
have one! I'm very grateful/lucky that he didn't get me, but he got
one of my friends. It was late in summer & I met my friend on the
street & he looked very sad. He told me that he had tajdidi in Arabic
& didn't pass & that the teacher had asked him to go to his house if
he wanted to pass. My friend was much older than me, so he must have
failed couple of years of school BEFORE 9'th grade! God knows how many
times I think about him, which used to fill me with savage ANGER!
I still get angry, but now I think maybe he too was a victim in his
Own childhood!

I think about so many OLDer kids in primary school, how could kids
fail the God damned primary school? It angers me so much when I think how it
must have messed up their whole lives! And this was a 'private' school too.

Regards.

----------------------------------------------------

Thanks IZ.

I've only recently read about ZibaaKallaam, so don't know him much.

It seems he's having second thoughts on the big-Revulsion & he is
now talking about Goftemaneh-maddani & not enqelaabi(black &
white; death to anyone who says otherwise; yes/no dead/alive
mentality).

The guy brags about being into Islamic-R before anybody else was,
joins the mob & after all the killing & WAR & corruption, he decides
it's not for him & 'politics/Ego/corruption' has taken over, so he
should go back to 'study', so goes back to UK for 6 years to study
sociology (IIRC?) & his Thesis was Islamic-Republic !
(Y leave heaven, Y not study in the ultimate heavenly society?) .

Even he seems out of favor with IRI now & has to defend that he
believes in Islam! (was even called by Khalkhaali a traitor!)

He seems to say we should learn from history, yet hasn't learned that
religion & politics don't mix! West went through religious-fanaticisms
& learned to pull out, but we have to do it ourselves & learn the hard
way?! And did NOT know that revolutions are tickets to crime &
murder & butchery & result in hate-cycle & corruptions.

Did he believe in Goftemaaneh-Maddani in his revolutionary days? Next Page

Part Two
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