IRAN105 - Moqol, temporary culture

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IRAN105 - Moqol, temporary culture

I found this in another BB & would like to know what u guys think about it?
Could this be a factor for the "Damet garm, bikhiyaal" culture?


From: vahid
Date: 01 Jul 2001

wanna know about what factors contribute to dictatorship in Iran, or running on
shoor/hayyajaan rather than brain, obssesion with crying/mourning, etc..

I'd recommend MA CHEGOONEH MA SHODEEM book by Dr. SADEq ZEEBA
KALAM. He describes in his book that after the attack of Mongols Iranian self esteem fell
apart,, and a culture of TEMPORARYNESS replaced the culture of CONFIDENCE in
future. this happened because with every government came a new land owners,, therefore
Iranians trust in long term commitment,, based on a permanent land ownership,, vanished.
In Europe new victors generally respected the ownerships of land owners(except in
communist countries) and therefore their need to have laws and to obey laws became
crucial. They understood if they broke laws they would suffer in the long term. Hence
obeying the laws has become a part of their culture. Obviously Europeans had to put in
place the mechanisms of producing just laws (more or less)or it wouldn't have worked.

Since the Mongols we (the Iranians) have learned to survive by either cooperating with
whoever is in power, or by fighting whoever is in power. Those few attempts to
democratise the process of change in government have not been successful (so far). Slow
democratic process, such as Mosadeq era, and now Khatami era, are simply too slow for
our taste. We submit hundreds of reasons as why we need a new government, a new
revolution, etc,, and the process continues.

Read MA CHEGOONEH MA SHODEEM book by Dr. SADEQ ZEEBA KALAM,
I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It sheds some light on who we are.

Also, RADIO SEDAYE IRAN has a program with BAHRAM MOSHIRI. This gentleman
is very well versed in Iran's history. You will benefit from listening to his shows. I have.


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Dear David,

"Our problem is we are still hang up in the past....
Basically everybody is busy fighting their opponents for
what happened to them in the past."

I know I made a deal not to say Amen, but u've forced me to
go against my own word!
Amennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn! & Bravo!


"May be the reason we like to talk about the past is because
of Dictatorship, we never had a chance to talk about those issues..."

Could this be the Palang factor in action!

"Again I am very much humbled with your very generous and warm word."

R u kidding me? It's me who is humbled & honored to have 'met' u!

For years I've avoided Iranians. For the first 10 years I hated them ALL!
Then I hated the Muslims. But I've learnt hate is wrong & is extremely
destructive & after a lot of effort mngd to find some peace in me after
15 years.

Every time I went back into Iranians, I got burnt.

Now I've met somebody I really appreciate & can be proud of & can
introduce to my western friends with pride: see I told u not all
iranians are terrorist & savages.


David, maybe the key is that I have no hidden agenda to Dominate u
or anybody else. I don't belong to any party/hezb. I get on this BB
& read u'r posts & say Wow Amen! I don't get jealous coz I don't
want to rule the world, so I really enjoy the wisdom/logic behind
what u say! That was the whole idea behind me posting my cutural
comments on this BB, to get others contribute so together 'we' could
identify the problems. I don't have the answers, so even if people
disagree with me, my EGO (which I hope I've got rid of it by now)
won't get hurt. I'm not a writer/sociologist/academic, just an
avg guy sick of suffering of my loved ones.

Otherwise I'd be arguing with u in a battle for Domination, no?

And maybe because I know I don't have to be your Moreed & throw
myself at your feet & either love u to death or hate u to death.

I just have a lot of appreciation for your comments & wisdom &
respect u for it. Even if I get to disagree with u in future, it
would be to disagree with the idea/suggestion & not to disagree
with 'U'. If this happens I'd respectfully say Y I disagree & will
read your reply without bias & would still respect you for these
comments u've had in the past. I will not call u names & reject
totally coz u r this-hezb or that-party.


Actually I just remembered reading Zeebakalaam's articles.
Many wrote to him & started with God's name & then Kh*-maaly that I'm
just a rustaayiyeh bisavaad & u r my ostaad & then gradually get to
the point that I think what u said is full of sh-t. This is done
very politely but it's like a game of chaaplusy & end up stabbing the
the 'enemy' in the back with a traditional-knife & end up teaching
him a lesson & feeling triumphant. It's not a WAR, it's just an
intellectual discussion!

The classical one is his letter to beloved VF. Too much emphasis on
cosmetics & status & 'face'/aaberu/qeyrat & laqab (jenaabeh hazrateh
blah blah blah). What do u think about this David?


" Socio- psychologically we are suffering from our traumatic events
that have happened to us in the past."

Amen!

And at a personal level, God knows how many times I've woken up in a
sweat thinking about the unnecessary suffering of myself & my loved
ones in the past, all caused by the cultural Dark Spots!


Let me give u an example:
I was gona write this in another post, but I say it now.
In Grade 7-8, the teacher who taught Arabic was a child molester
Bacheh baaz. I know, I know Iranians are too sharif, but we did
have one! I'm very grateful/lucky that he didn't get me, but he got
one of my friends. It was late in summer & I met my friend on the
street & he looked very sad. He told me that he had tajdidi in Arabic
& didn't pass & that the teacher had asked him to go to his house if
he wanted to pass. My friend was much older than me, so he must have
failed couple of years of school BEFORE 9'th grade! God knows how many
times I think about him, which used to fill me with savage ANGER!
I still get angry, but now I think maybe he too was a victim in his
Own childhood!

I think about so many OLDer kids in primary school, how could kids
fail the God damned primary school? It angers me so much when I think how it
must have messed up their whole lives! And this was a 'private' school too.

Regards.

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Thanks IZ.

I've only recently read about ZeebaaKallaam, so don't know him much.

It seems he's having second thoughts on the big-Revulsion & he is
now talking about Goftemaneh-maddani & not enqellaabi(black &
white; death to anyone who says otherwise; yes/no dead/alive
mentality).

The guy brags about being into Islamic-R before anybody else was,
joins the mob & after all the killing & WAR & corruption, he decides
it's not for him & 'politics/Ego/corruption' has taken over, so he
should go back to 'study', so goes back to UK for 6 years to study
socilogo (IIRC?) & his Thesis was Islamic-Republic !
(Y leave heaven, Y not study in the ultimate heavenly society?) .

Even he seems out of favor with IRI now & has to defend that he
believes in Islam! (was even called by Khalkhaali a trator!)

He seems to say we should learn from history, yet hasn't learnt that
religion & politics don't mix! West went through religious-fanatisizm
& learnt to pull out, but we have to do it ourselves & learn the hard
way?! And did NOT know that revolutions are tickets to crime &
murder & butchery & result in hate-cycle & corruptions.

Did he believe in Goftemaaneh-Maddani in his revolutionary days?